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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • waghorn41
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Mar 2011
    • 256

    Well I've e-mailed my MP, hope it helps.

    Ian, ex-RAF
    ex-RAF Hunter and Wessex mechanic

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    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest

      Thank you!

      The important thing to remember is that we simply do not know if these are the remains of Dennis Copping or not....and we need to find out, especially after untruthful/misleading information has been given to the family.

      Comment

      • xtangomike
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • May 2006
        • 537

        I spent a couple of hours this morning at the Bomber Command Memorial, Green Park....I am still in wonderment at the sheer detail and immence feeling of awe, that this memorial gives out to all the people there today, paying homage to those memories of so many fallen airmen.
        I had read this blog before leaving home, and added Fl.Sgt Copping's memory to those proud figures standing, looking out for the aircraft and crews that never came back.

        I know that eventually, through all this anger at what has happened so far, Fl.Sgt Copping will be returned and given the full honour he deserves.
        We, on here, will make it so.
        'Where the hell have you been?'

        Comment

        • Rocketeer
          trying harder
          • Jan 2005
          • 5256

          My goodness.....I would have wished that this was not true. I too will write to my MP tonight.
          I agree, this basic test should be done, it is the LEAST that could be done. I too hope that he is recovered and afforded the hero's burial he richly deserves.
          It is odd how easy it was to focus on the aircraft and the 'richness'/tantalising thought of it as a time capsule. Mentally, some had it being restored and flying...others pictured it in an 'as found' setting. All seems pretty silly now.....the bigger picture was a man surviving combat, surviving a crash landing and then attempting to walk out the desert and back into combat:- sadly to fail. We REALLY do owe him more, we need to find him, we must find him and show how heroism and human sacrifice for others means more than just an exhibit in a museum. In an age when joe public worships soap 'stars', reality 'stars' and overpaid footballers, we really need to treat this real hero better.
          Tony Dyer
          https://www.facebook.com/TheAirDefen...homepage_panel

          Comment

          • Guest's Avatar
            Guest

            Indeed, Tony.

            For the last month (or more in fact) three of us on this forum have been working away at this behind the scenes - visiting the family, gathering information, talking to the press, to the Italians...and trying to engage Capt Collins and the MOD. We quickly realised things were being misrepresented and had not been properly actioned, hence the arrival at this point now.

            I don't think its any secret (after the Daily Mail piece) that there are initial plans to mount an expedition out there to have the remains recovered and scientifically checked. This is working with the family and in accord with their wishes, and hopefully working with the Italians as well.

            If funding can be secured and the paperwork put in place, we're off!

            Comment

            • Rocketeer
              trying harder
              • Jan 2005
              • 5256

              That is good to hear Andy. This is a story that gets under my skin.....I am trying to keep my stress levels low.....but this is important.
              Tony Dyer
              https://www.facebook.com/TheAirDefen...homepage_panel

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              • Guest's Avatar
                Guest

                Just another little thing that, to me, is a big niggle.

                The family asked for a copy of his Record of Service and were told one could be supplied within twelve weeks upon payment of 30.00, please.

                The family paid up, but I am not sure if they yet have it.

                Now, given the high profile nature of this case you really would have thought, wouldn't you, that the RoS would have been procured swiftly and without any thought of charging for it, wouldn't you?

                So, poor old Dennis loses his life in 1942 and is still missing. The British authorities in Egypt haven't bothered to visit or test the reported remains (but have misrepresented the facts to the family) but the MOD are quite comfortable to take thirty wretched pounds off the family so they can read his service record.

                Its becoming increasingly difficult to be proud to be British.

                Comment

                • TonyT
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 9042

                  While wishing you all the best, and i realise the families wishes are a major concern, but going out to recover him is wrong, the MOD should be doing this.
                  By others doing what should be their duty you are setting precedents for them to shirk their responsibilities in the future, such a high profile story that has run in several of the UK newspapers should be turned into a PR disaster for the MOD and the RAF that once and for all forces them in a humiliating acceptance that it is their duty to ensure they recover and properly inter those that have died in the service of their Country..
                  As an Ex Serviceman I and others would expect that as the minimum for those that have made the ultimate sacrifice, I for one cannot understand the efforts being made on the WW1 battlefields to identify and bury those recovered whilst seemingly avoiding those lost elsewhere

                  They are shirking this duty and that needs to be stopped..

                  Incidentally you may be unaware of this... Another case

                  http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...rew-kl654.html

                  .
                  Last edited by TonyT; 25th October 2012, 22:23.

                  Comment

                  • Rick65
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Nov 2011
                    • 11

                    KL654 crew buried 18 Oct

                    http://www.rafb24.com/index.php/foru...-last-18th-oct

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                    • Guest's Avatar
                      Guest

                      Tony T - to an extent I agree all that you say, but as Rick65 pointed out through his link, and through your own link, precedents are already set with KL654.

                      In this case, there would certainly be a potential problem with some 'formal' MOD involvement in Egypt (ie having British forces on the ground in Egypt), although I see no reason why this could not be undertaken by the Defence Attache and his staff working with experts.

                      As I understand it, anyway, there would be legal restrictions about just going to the desert, scooping up the remains and taking them back to the authorities someplace. One would hope, however, that such obstacles could be overcome, within the law of the country. At the very least, one might hope that it would be initially possible to recover a sufficient sample for age (and then DNA) testing. This would allow for a considered response by the respective authorities as to how the remains might then best be dealt with, or not as the case may be.
                      Last edited by Tangmere1940; 26th October 2012, 06:38.

                      Comment

                      • TonyT
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Oct 2006
                        • 9042

                        Seen this?

                        http://www.twgpp.org/downloads/news/...ummer_2012.pdf

                        Was posted over on the pprune thread

                        Comment

                        • mmitch
                          Member
                          • Mar 2003
                          • 1753

                          Emailed my MP and linked this thread as well.
                          mmitch.

                          Comment

                          • Rocketeer
                            trying harder
                            • Jan 2005
                            • 5256

                            Sent this to my MP:-

                            Dear George Young,

                            As Remembrance Day approaches, as well as my own family who fought, I am drawn to remember Flt Sgt Copping. He was the pilot of the P40 aircraft found (like a time capsule) in the Egyptian Desert earlier this year.

                            It is odd how easy it was to focus on the aircraft and the 'richness'/tantalising thought of it as a time capsule. Mentally, some had it being restored and flying...others pictured it in an 'as found' setting. All seems pretty silly now.....the bigger picture was a brave man surviving combat, surviving a crash landing and then attempting to walk out the desert and back into combat:- sadly to fail.
                            We REALLY do owe him more, we need to find him, we must find him and show how heroism and human sacrifice for others means more than just an exhibit in a museum. In an age when joe public worships soap 'stars', reality 'stars' and overpaid footballers, we really need to treat this real hero better.
                            Apparently some human bones were found and the MoD have allegedly discounted them as being from the pilot without even seeing or testing them. This basic test should be done, it is the LEAST that could be done. In this time of Remembrance and with our brave forces still dying for this country, I implore you to please ask The PM to find this hero and afford him the hero's burial he richly deserves. It could be done as part of an exercise.


                            Yours sincerely,

                            Tony Dyer
                            Tony Dyer
                            https://www.facebook.com/TheAirDefen...homepage_panel

                            Comment

                            • N.Wotherspoon
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2005
                              • 643

                              Think that sums it up perfectly Tony - is it OK to use the same text please.
                              Last edited by Peter; 26th October 2012, 16:01.
                              Regards - Nick - Lancashire UK

                              "Ex tenebris Lux"

                              L.A.I.T.

                              North West Aircraft Wrecks

                              Aircraft Wrecks: The Walker's Guide

                              Comment

                              • Mike J
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2000
                                • 3241

                                Whilst I applaud the sentiment, I'm not convinced that requesting a military exercise to be held in Egypt is the most practical or productive suggestion to make.

                                Comment

                                • Guest's Avatar
                                  Guest

                                  To be honest, Tony, I don't think a UK military exercise in Egypt is likely!

                                  If it does end up being done officially then I would suggest it is likely to be through diplomatic/attache routes, perhaps working with Egyptian authorities and maybe the regional CWGC representative. The other route, but again done through official channels/approval, would be via a private expedition but involving specialists/professionals in this sphere.

                                  Comment

                                  • N.Wotherspoon
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2005
                                    • 643

                                    Good point - I will leave out the last sentence - is it OK to use otherwise Tony?
                                    Regards - Nick - Lancashire UK

                                    "Ex tenebris Lux"

                                    L.A.I.T.

                                    North West Aircraft Wrecks

                                    Aircraft Wrecks: The Walker's Guide

                                    Comment

                                    • CeBro
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Sep 2009
                                      • 2154

                                      Hmm, there is a small country between Great Britain, Belgium and Germany which name has escaped me at the moment that could be included in your plea as well. Hundreds of cases like this.

                                      Cees

                                      Comment

                                      • Rocketeer
                                        trying harder
                                        • Jan 2005
                                        • 5256

                                        Of course it is Nick.

                                        Regarding exercise, this is the term often using for service ski trips to more military type tasks.
                                        Tony Dyer
                                        https://www.facebook.com/TheAirDefen...homepage_panel

                                        Comment

                                        • PeterVerney
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • May 2009
                                          • 1022

                                          I have emailed my MP and linked this thread.
                                          However I have very little hope that this will produce any results.
                                          My MP is Dr Poulter, who prefers to be known as "Dr Dan", and is right up our Dave's a*sehole. Our Dave, being a PR man, or puff artist, is all mouth and trousers, but extremely short on action.
                                          Man is not lost. Only temporarily uncertain of his position.

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