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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • l.garey
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Feb 2006
    • 1951

    Well said Pat. As I have said on many occasions on each of the P40 threads, the remains found by the ARIDO team could easily be recovered and tested. The whole concept of them being 400 years old could be laid to rest, and their relation, if any, to Dennis Copping easily investigated.
    Laurence

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    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest

      It really is a shame that the 'exposure' of this story has been so low key.

      The MOD have seemingly done a pretty masterful job in covering their monumental embarrassment and effectively hiding what has gone on.

      Even now, the full story of incomptence over this has not been told and there are several posters on this forum who are very close to events here and know the full and sorry tale. I have little doubt that the truth will out in the end, because there are those of us who will ensure it is so. More importantly, those individuals are determined to try to resolve this one way or another for the sake of Flt Sgt Copping and his family - even if the MOD cannot or will not do so. Indeed, all the authorities have thus far done is involve themselves in the apparently more important quest to get the P40 out of the desert whilst telling the family a pack of untruths about the remains nearby which have been neglected and not 'tested' at all as they claimed. This goes all the way back to Captain Paul Collins, Defence Attache Cairo, who some months back stated to the press that "I am satisfied the remains are not those of Dennis Copping". He gave no reason or qualification for such a statement but it is now clear this was not based on any fact - and the fact was then, and still is, that he didn't know! And yet the family were sold this as a definite matter of fact.

      I am aware that a VERY senior RAF staff officer stated in an e-mail a few months back that this whole thing was a potential PR disaster. Give that man a medal!

      Where is Qatarra when you need him?
      Last edited by Tangmere1940; 25th October 2012, 06:32.

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      • Jayce
        Order of the Bent Pitot
        • Nov 2010
        • 495

        *Sigh* Not at all surprised by this. There's a certain breed of person frequently found in British officialdom who's only contribution to the nation is a lot of blas incompetence and a pension debt.

        Sadly for Copping's family, they seem to be dealing with several of the type.

        Hopefully one or two careers end up in the toilet over this farce.

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        • RAFRochford
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Feb 2006
          • 911

          Totally agree on this. Even without all of the facts at hand, it can be seen that this is a very disgraceful affair.

          This got me thinking last night, as an ex Southend dweller, wouldn't it be nice to see some sort of memorial dedicated to Flt Sgt Copping in his home town. Maybe at the new terminal building at Southend Airport.

          Qatarra? It would be good to hear his current views here, but he doesn't seem to have posted in a while. Have to say though, that he did receive a fair amount of skepticism for a while, particularly about the remains.

          Regards;
          Steve

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          • Guest's Avatar
            Guest

            RAF Rochford

            You are, of course, absolutely right about Qatarra and he did get a bit of stick over things.

            I will openly admit that I was one of the doubters, but I have changed my views somewhat knowing what I know now - and albeit that I do still have some doubts as to the origin of the remains. However, there are several important facts that we now know for certain:

            1) The remains are human
            2) They were reportedly found in association with what seems to be part of the parachute found by the P40
            3) No tests have been conducted to determine their age or if they can be discounted as Flt Sgt Copping, or confirmed as him

            All of that said, it is truly remarkable that these remains were discovered in the way they were and, personally, I do wonder if the artefacts and effects found nearby are anything to do with Dennis Copping - or the remains in question.

            The important and over-riding fact is that nobody has yet checked these remains to confirm one way or the other.

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            • l.garey
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Feb 2006
              • 1951

              Totally agree. See my post number 6 above. We now need to get the bones and examine them forensically. That should not be too difficult, in order to dispel the fairy stories that have been perpetrated about them and get to the scientific truth.
              Laurence

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              • RAFRochford
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Feb 2006
                • 911

                Hi Andy;

                Totally agree on all of those points. Yes, it was remarkable how soon after these remains were found, but how these remains were not tested immediately is a complete mystery to me. After all, how many lost souls can there be in such a desolate area?

                I do hope we hear from Qatarra soon. I seem to recall his utter frustration that any sort of test had not been carried out. Without scanning back through the threads, am I to assume that the remains are still In Situ?

                Fingers crossed that something is done about this soon.

                Regards;
                Steve

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                • l.garey
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Feb 2006
                  • 1951

                  Qattara said that they reburied the bones near the rock where they found them as they had been asked to do so by the authorities.
                  Laurence

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                  • RAFRochford
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 911

                    Hi Laurence;

                    Thanks for that. So at least all is not lost yet then!

                    Regards;
                    Steve

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                    • l.garey
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Feb 2006
                      • 1951

                      Nothing is lost, except opportunities. We have to discount the red herrings (400 years old, not Copping etc etc) that have been thrown at us. Those bones could be recovered without too much effort and analysed. But the immediate area under and around the wreck should have been carefully investigated just in case poor Dennis was still there then.
                      Laurence

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                      • pat1968
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Apr 2004
                        • 260

                        All is far from lost with respect to the remains discovered by qattara and his team. I have no doubt that the MOD will do nothing so it will be up to us "amateurs" as i believe we have been described. If being a professional means you behave in the way the MOD et al have then i am very proud to be an amateur!
                        "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

                        www.hawkerhind.com

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                        • Guest's Avatar
                          Guest

                          I would also add that if the MOD and British Embassy, Cairo, imagine that this will all quietly go away they are living in cloud cuckoo land. It isn't going to, and it won't - especially not in this Remembrance Day period and the at the time of the 70th anniversary of El Alamein.

                          By keeping quiet on the matter I feel the authorities are simply making things worse.

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                          • mmitch
                            Member
                            • Mar 2003
                            • 1750

                            I suppose what it really needs is an urgent question from an MP to the Minister in the Commons. That usually gets plenty of attention. Especially if he is wearing a poppy.........
                            mmitch.

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                            • pat1968
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Apr 2004
                              • 260

                              Right! Well the press have fudged it but this is still a democracy (thanks in no small part to the sacrifice made by Dennis Copping and so many others) so that means we have the power and not them! So if you want to make your voices heard in the first instance you need do no more than put a quick post on this thread saying that you think something should be done. The press have been reading this forum so give them something to read. If you want to write to your MP's then i can't see that it can do any harm. With remembrance day just around the corner it's a good time for everyone to spend a few minutes doing something that actually might make a difference to a family that have paid a heavy price for all of us. We are not asking for much, give it some thought.

                              Pat
                              "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

                              www.hawkerhind.com

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                              • TonyT
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Oct 2006
                                • 9022

                                As an ex Serviceman i feel appalled the way this has been handled, I also feel Quattara has equally been unjustly treated, they are trying to do what's right and I along with them feel nothing but loathing and disgust at the way the remains of Flt Sgt Copping and his family have been treated, the RAF museum does not come out of this smelling of roses either. One of the things you felt in the services was if killed abroad in the service of your country, you would at least have a fitting burial alongside your comrades... Clearly here this is not the case and those that are fudging this task up want to take a step back and remember if it wasn't for the likes of F Sgt Copping, the world they live in now would be a lot different..

                                Btw seen this

                                http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...-70-years.html

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                                • pat1968
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Apr 2004
                                  • 260

                                  thanks for posting that TonyT i hadn't seen it. It is heartening to see tath people are as outraged as us!
                                  "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

                                  www.hawkerhind.com

                                  Comment

                                  • PeterVerney
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • May 2009
                                    • 1021

                                    I have been following this story with mounting anger. So much so that I feel diffident about contributing in case I turn the thread blue. As ex aircrew from the 50's, a period when we were treated pretty poorly, I feel that our masters, and so called public servants, have really let the country down big time over this poor fellow. Maybe because he was "only" an NCO means that he doesn't count. OK, I was a sergeant and maybe have a chip on my shoulder, but the feeling still worries me.
                                    Man is not lost. Only temporarily uncertain of his position.

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                                    • Guest's Avatar
                                      Guest

                                      Pat's idea is an excellent one, and my letter will be drafted and sent to my MP tomorrow.

                                      I think those who wish to do this will have done far more towards the act of remembrance than if they had just bought a poppy.

                                      Comment

                                      • pat1968
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Apr 2004
                                        • 260

                                        for anyone who wants to write to or email their MP go to the link below and enter your postcode it really couldn't be easier!

                                        http://www.writetothem.com
                                        "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

                                        www.hawkerhind.com

                                        Comment

                                        • Guest's Avatar
                                          Guest

                                          What is interesting, as I have dipped in and out of this, is to note not only the number of registered forum 'members' who are regularly following this but the number of 'non members' at any one time. Fifteen a moment ago, and twenty-seven this afternoon.

                                          So, to those watchers....why not write to your MP, too? The details you need for the letter content are pretty much in Pat's original post and his link (above) will get your local MP's details.

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