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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • qattara
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • May 2012
    • 52

    Dear
    The Italian flag that you can see in the pictures comes with us in all our expeditions and we raise it because we are Italians and for the photographs/videos.

    It was temporary put (with the flag of our association) on the P40 during our staying there and was removed when we went on.

    We do not leave anything behind us in the desert and we do not take with us anything that belongs to the desert.

    Regards

    Comment

    • richw_82
      White Knuckle Airlines
      • Nov 2009
      • 1675

      Originally posted by Tangmere1940
      I have just been trying to figure out the copper tag. It reminds me much of the weight tags fixed to old coal sacks - though I doubt the Bedouin have many coal deliveries! It is also marked Cad Cu (Copper Cadmium?) and a weight that looks to be 127 lbs. An odd thing to be with a flier or the P40. One assumes that it must have been something personal to the pilot (if associated at all with the P40 or the pilot) as it bears no AM stores reference. I realise this was a US built a/c, but did a UK based manufacturer supply parts to Curtis? If not, and if it is an AM piece of kit fitted to the P40, then wouldn't it have an AM stores reference? Certainly a curious mystery.
      So you have something circular, of a metal that is easy to keep relatively shiny, and with a hole in the centre.

      Possibly a makeshift Heliograph?

      Rich

      Comment

      • skeeler
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jul 2008
        • 141

        Thank you to Quattara, ARIDO and all their team for such exceptional work and I hope, as many others also do, that the human remains found can be positively identified and another lost soul laid to rest in peace. Thank you also for your best efforts in trying to protect the wreck of the aircraft and in recording the site for posterity and history. You have done and continue to do a fantastic job.

        For those who have not noticed there are English language links to the articles on the Quattara.it website and for ease I have pasted them below:-

        http://www.qattara.it/versione%20in%...ESTO%20_1_.pdf

        http://www.qattara.it/versione%20in%...70%20years.pdf

        The remaining pages are in Italian or Arabic, but thanks to 'Google translate' can also be translated into English reasonably well.

        It appears from the first PDF above that ARIDO are deservedly receiving attention from an Italian TV channel tomorrow.

        Steve.

        Comment

        • qattara
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • May 2012
          • 52

          we do thank you, for your appreciation for our work; we are however available to forward any further result of our next expedition, although should be our pleasure to have anyone of you, chaps, to join us by the next opportunity.
          if interested do not hesitate to contact me.

          Comment

          • Jayce
            Order of the Bent Pitot
            • Nov 2010
            • 495

            Originally posted by Tangmere1940

            I have just been trying to figure out the copper tag. It reminds me much of the weight tags fixed to old coal sacks - though I doubt the Bedouin have many coal deliveries! It is also marked Cad Cu (Copper Cadmium?) and a weight that looks to be 127 lbs. An odd thing to be with a flier or the P40. One assumes that it must have been something personal to the pilot (if associated at all with the P40 or the pilot) as it bears no AM stores reference. I realise this was a US built a/c, but did a UK based manufacturer supply parts to Curtis? If not, and if it is an AM piece of kit fitted to the P40, then wouldn't it have an AM stores reference? Certainly a curious mystery.
            Andy, Elliotts were a subsidiary of ICI and supplied copper and aluminium parts to the British aircraft industry. It's almost certainly from something on or with the a/c rather than a personal item.

            Comment

            • l.garey
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Feb 2006
              • 1948

              qattara: I wish I could see your TV programme tonight. I can get it here in Switzerland, but I shall be out tonight, so I will miss it. Can it be made available later?
              Laurence

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              • l.garey
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Feb 2006
                • 1948

                In fact I am just watching the first part of the TV programme. Unfortunately will have to switch off now to go out.
                Laurence

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                • Guest's Avatar
                  Guest

                  Originally posted by Jayce
                  Andy, Elliotts were a subsidiary of ICI and supplied copper and aluminium parts to the British aircraft industry. It's almost certainly from something on or with the a/c rather than a personal item.
                  I would be quite surprised if it were either.

                  Comment

                  • TonyT
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Oct 2006
                    • 9008

                    The heliograph sounds plausible, we used to make do and adapt stuff we found along the way to suit what we needed, found lying about at a base it could have been aquired and polished up it might have become part of his personal kit. It could also account for why it was found on his trail, it would be something he would take with him.

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                    • Guest's Avatar
                      Guest

                      I believe by this stage RAF aircrew were issued with signallining heliographs. I know these items went as standard kit in dinghy packs, but I would I have thought that they may have been issued to desert aircrew anyway. I don't know enough about desert survival kit of the period to be sure. In any event, the 'K' type dinghy was in use by then I cannot imagine Copping would not have had one. Thus, he should have had a heliograph.

                      In any event, all of this pre-supposes that these are the remains of Copping (or even human) and that these objects were his and dropped along his 'trail'. The former point is subject to confirmation. On the matter of the objects, there is nothing apart from rather flaky circumstantial evidence linking them to the supposed remains or the P40.

                      Whatever, the debate about all of this has eclipsed Mark's thread remembering the pilot on the anniversary of his death (yesterday) and that is a little sad I feel.

                      Comment

                      • HangarFlies
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jun 2012
                        • 30

                        Originally posted by Phantom Phil
                        Funny you should mention that as I have come across what looks to be another aircraft while looking for the P40. It's more near the coast towards LG09. I'll give you more info when I look at it using Bing instead of Google!
                        That's amazing. Interested in your final result.

                        Comment

                        • brewerjerry
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • May 2004
                          • 917

                          Hi
                          Nice to think he may have been found, and full credit to the Italian guys.

                          but the question must be asked ............

                          why didn't the UK send a team out.

                          Jerry

                          Comment

                          • Phantom Phil
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Nov 2007
                            • 1062

                            Originally posted by HangarFlies
                            That's amazing. Interested in your final result.
                            Well, I've had a look but on Bing, it has been removed. Looking back on Google, it looks to be something around the shape and size of a DH Dove. It was not far from some buildings so maybe it was owned by someone out there...

                            Comment

                            • Phantom Phil
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Nov 2007
                              • 1062

                              Could even be this one...

                              http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=27693

                              Comment

                              • TonyT
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Oct 2006
                                • 9008

                                Maybe because we are not ermmm popular in every country, they had a team ready to go, or on the ground, experienced in the desert, experienced in the field, could be a myriad of reasons, but, knowing the UK they might of actually been cheaper..


                                Just goes to show how inhospitable the place is, if that Dove was lost then, one would imagine a large search would have taken place, and they still didn't find the P-40 or ignored it as being a single.

                                Comment

                                • qattara
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • May 2012
                                  • 52

                                  P40 interview

                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMuS6Y1FnUg

                                  iterview to arido team about discovery P 40 and human relics

                                  Comment

                                  • Steve Newman
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Aug 2010
                                    • 69

                                    Lets hope it is him and finally he can be given the burial and respect he so richly deserved and give closure to family of what finally became of him.

                                    Lest we forget

                                    Steve

                                    Comment

                                    • Skybert
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2000
                                      • 112

                                      Things seem to be coming to a close on this, especially regarding the recovery of the pilot.. Since I don't understand Italian.. have the remains been recovered yet?

                                      Comment

                                      • l.garey
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Feb 2006
                                        • 1948

                                        The Italian team apparently found a few bones (vertebrae, ribs, clavicle, small foot bones). However, we cannot know if they belong to the pilot until either more are recovered or DNA results are forthcoming.
                                        Laurence

                                        Comment

                                        • VX927
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Feb 2006
                                          • 901

                                          Am I the only person on here who would like to see this aircraft recovered and returned to flight? Sadly, due to the apparent vandalism she is no longer the time capsule that we first saw. It's sad to see what people have done to her. If the options are to display her as she is now, to full restoration, I think I'd opt for full restoration.

                                          Comment

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