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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • l.garey
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Feb 2006
    • 1954

    Ah: let me look at the original
    Laurence

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    • l.garey
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Feb 2006
      • 1954

      Andy:
      I see what you mean, but the original does not help much. It says:

      il compito affidato dalla Direzione, dalle Autorit britanniche, dal museo RAF.

      the task entrusted by the Direction, by the British authorities, by the RAF Museum.

      What "Direction"? I suppose the British authorities are the Embassy staff, but where does the RAFM come in? There is simply a comma!
      Laurence

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      • paulmcmillan
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jan 2000
        • 2658

        That button says

        made by s s d bros h v 1939

        S S D Bros was a supplier to UK Military based in Aligarh, Utter Pradesh, North Western India

        Sgt Coppings service number as previous stated #785025 was in a batch between 785000 to 786999 (highest known number 786379) issued in July 1940 to Local enlistments in Far East

        Would uniforms in the Far East (to me meaning Burma, Hong Hong, Singapore etc) have been supplied from India?

        I would have imagined Middle East uniforms would have been supplied more locally
        Weather - Fair with cloudy patches, clear by early evening.

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        • Guest's Avatar
          Guest

          Good piece of detective work, Paul!

          I had looked, but didn't find it.

          Certainly seems credible that the button could well be associated, then. Although other possibilities cannot be excluded.

          Meanwhile, this link on the Italian website is worth a view:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OWPg5FLh8o

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          • paulmcmillan
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2000
            • 2658

            Also re: Elliots Metal Co Ltd Birmingham

            This was not a scrap metal dealer that still exists (there is one in Reading of same name) but a subsidary company of ICI that made rolled brass and copper, copper wire and tube and was based in Selly Oak, Birmingham and also in Swansea

            Interestingly one Neville Chamberlain was once a a director of this company..
            Weather - Fair with cloudy patches, clear by early evening.

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            • Guest's Avatar
              Guest

              Yes, that is what I had found too.

              Not sure where they discovered Elliot's were suppliers to the RAF. They may well have been, although for what its worth a different firm by that name (Elliot's), of course, provided the standard RAF wall clocks and sector clocks.

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              • Vega ECM
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Oct 2005
                • 492

                Originally posted by paulmcmillan
                Also re: Elliots Metal Co Ltd Birmingham

                This was not a scrap metal dealer that still exists (there is one in Reading of same name) but a subsidary company of ICI that made rolled brass and copper, copper wire and tube and was based in Selly Oak, Birmingham and also in Swansea

                Interestingly one Neville Chamberlain was once a a director of this company..
                So I guess this is a name plate off a 127lb box of mixed copper alloying elements Be (Beryllium) & Sa (old chem symbol for Samaruim) . Both used with copper to make watch springs and non sparking tools etc.

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                • TonyT
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 9042

                  It would make sense to leave a trail of loose items, in case the plane was found, as for the chute parts, again sunshade during the day, warmth during the night.. Poor guy, it most of been horrific.

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                  • Guest's Avatar
                    Guest

                    Originally posted by Vega ECM
                    So I guess this is a name plate off a 127lb box of mixed copper alloying elements Be (Beryllium) & Sa (old chem symbol for Samaruim) . Both used with copper to make watch springs and non sparking tools etc.
                    Not exactly standard issue equipment, then.

                    The single punch-hole would fit with this being a tag that has been roughly banged onto a box or some other container. What it might be doing in a P40 pilot's pocket is a mystery. What it might be doing in the middle of the Sahara is quite another.

                    I suppose the only good thing is that TIGHAR are not involved, else the expositions would doubtless be endless.

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                    • Vega ECM
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Oct 2005
                      • 492

                      Originally posted by Tangmere1940
                      Not exactly standard issue equipment, then.

                      The single punch-hole would fit with this being a tag that has been roughly banged onto a box or some other container. What it might be doing in a P40 pilot's pocket is a mystery. What it might be doing in the middle of the Sahara is quite another.

                      I suppose the only good thing is that TIGHAR are not involved, else the expositions would doubtless be endless.
                      Egypt was/is a major supplier of Be where it's picked up off the desert floor. I wonder if this has just fallen off a miners box while being transported over bumpy desert.

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                      • Phantom Phil
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Nov 2007
                        • 1062

                        Only Just found her...

                        When it was mentioned a few pages back that finding this P40 was like finding a needle in a haystack, in a field full of haystacks was NO joke!! I have only just found her and you can't see her using Google Earth as the detail is poor. I ended up using Bing Maps...

                        Good news if they can verify the remains of that of F/Sgt Copping!

                        Picture below:

                        Comment

                        • shepsair
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 284

                          P40

                          Well done Phantom Phil.

                          If you have some spare time, can you check the rest of the Sahara!

                          Try and find the 'Spitfire'.

                          regards

                          Mark

                          Comment

                          • Phantom Phil
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Nov 2007
                            • 1062

                            Funny you should mention that as I have come across what looks to be another aircraft while looking for the P40. It's more near the coast towards LG09. I'll give you more info when I look at it using Bing instead of Google!

                            Comment

                            • ozjag
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 834

                              Great work from the Qattara team.

                              I am disappointed even more now (although I should have expected it) after looking at their close up photos nearly all of the cockpit instruments have had their glass smashed and some of the warning lights have been removed or broken off. It is less like a time capsule every day. You can tell from their website that the Qattara guys are upset too.

                              Paul
                              Facebook: Aussie Cockpits

                              Comment

                              • critter592
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Sep 2006
                                • 671

                                I have been following this thread from the start, but not posting...
                                I really do hope Flt Sgt Copping has at last been found.

                                Terrific work from the Qattara team. Well done chaps.
                                Midlands Air Crash Research

                                "Lest We Forget"

                                Comment

                                • l.garey
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Feb 2006
                                  • 1954

                                  Might the metal tag be related to the Polish oil-men's visit?
                                  Laurence

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                                  • Dan Johnson
                                    Wannabe Yank in the RAF
                                    • Mar 2003
                                    • 997

                                    Originally posted by Tangmere1940
                                    Good piece of detective work, Paul!

                                    I had looked, but didn't find it.

                                    Certainly seems credible that the button could well be associated, then. Although other possibilities cannot be excluded.

                                    Meanwhile, this link on the Italian website is worth a view:

                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OWPg5FLh8o

                                    I know in the end it's just a bunch of metal put together into a machine, but save the poor girl for heaven's sake!

                                    I'd say she's earned some tender loving care out of the sun after all these years. If for no other reason then to remember the loss of the pilot who tried to save her.

                                    Comment

                                    • qattara
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • May 2012
                                      • 52

                                      I see what you mean, but the original does not help much. It says:

                                      il compito affidato dalla Direzione, dalle Autorit britanniche, dal museo RAF.

                                      the task entrusted by the Direction, by the British authorities, by the RAF Museum.

                                      What "Direction"? I suppose the British authorities are the Embassy staff, but where does the RAFM come in? There is simply a comma!
                                      __________________
                                      Laurence


                                      the direction is: chief of ARIDO ASSOCIATION the Governing Council approved the dispatch of the Association avev giving us some diretive

                                      Comment

                                      • qattara
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • May 2012
                                        • 52

                                        in my website there is a second pictures collection about the relics near the plane

                                        Comment

                                        • l.garey
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Feb 2006
                                          • 1954

                                          qattara: re the direction is: chief of ARIDO ASSOCIATION the Governing Council approved the dispatch of the Association avev giving us some diretive

                                          Thanks for clarifying.
                                          Laurence

                                          Comment

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