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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • richw_82
    White Knuckle Airlines
    • Nov 2009
    • 1678

    Well done the ARID team. One more missing pilot found.

    Comment

    • shepsair
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Oct 2009
      • 284

      P40

      Hi Qattara,

      That is good news. The family are aware though mentioned 5m/8km from site.

      There cannot be too many other options if RAF buttons and parachute silk has been found.

      The undercarriage is also an interesting one. It is reported that the undercarriage was fixed down but I suppose the question is there that if Copping knew he had to land whether he released the undercarriage lock or tried to retract?. Wondered why the other tyre was. It still seems as though the port leg did not retract though the starboard may well have. The port tailplane damage seems to indicate damage from the tyre/oleo.

      Hopefully other collaborating evidence can be found when the DA gets to site. His watch, uniform, aircraft clock etc.

      Sounds very positive indeed and well done with the search.

      regards

      Mark

      Comment

      • slicer
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jul 2003
        • 664

        What an extraordinary, fascinating, and poignant story this has been. How on earth they managed to find those metal artefacts in the desert, and then his sparse remains, I don't know...but what a God-forsaken and sobering place it is.
        It is so sad that the wreck has suffered from mindless vandalism, but it seems to be in good hands now.
        Thanks for the huge effort put in by all responsible parties to obtain closure for Sgt Copping and his family.

        Comment

        • Louiechevy
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Apr 2012
          • 81

          Thats very good news, such dedication from the ARID team to not only search in such a harsh place but to also have the satisfaction of finding a man missing for a few days short of seventy years well done to them. I must admit it was this story that led to me joining the forum and although I havent posted much i've followed this story from the start.

          Louie

          Comment

          • qattara
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • May 2012
            • 52

            will be a good thing if we could notify his family, but we have no delivery
            if someone can help us please write to danielemoretto@libero.it or info@arido.eu
            However, Colonel Colling is informed (military attach)

            thank you
            next days we will publish more other photos and news

            Comment

            • rreis
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Aug 2009
              • 140

              Fantstico.

              Comment

              • Soggy
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Oct 2009
                • 188

                8 miles. Poor F/Sgt Copping, what a valiant effort to save himself, and it seems, he thought he knew the best way to go.

                What on earth caused him to be down there, what a mystery.

                Thank you for the report Quatara, and to the team for finding him.

                Comment

                • shepsair
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 284

                  P40 Copping

                  Hi Qattara,

                  I am in contact with the family. I have sent you an email.

                  It sounds positive but additional evidence can hopefully be obtained by DA Paul Collins at the embassy. I would hope ID tags, his watch (right wrist), band on his left wrist, shoes, aircraft clock?, First Air kit would be found near by??

                  Hopefully you are awaiting for the officials to undertake a more detailed search?

                  Confused by the parachute as the remains of the parachute were located near the plane? Also makes mention of red and white whereas I thought RAF parachutes were just white (someone knows different - please correct me).

                  Going on the B24 LBG crew, (albeit the time scale is different) I would expect a body against a protected rock outcrop to be mummified and complete but I am not an expert.

                  I really do hope it is F/Sgt Dennis Copping.

                  regards

                  Mark

                  Comment

                  • l.garey
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 1951

                    qattara: e-mail sent to you (not about the family) and PM to shepsair
                    Laurence

                    Comment

                    • qattara
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • May 2012
                      • 52

                      sure, we have found as you can see on qattara.it, a button and a little copper plate (elliot's....) but we don't know if belong to copping like the bones.
                      piece of parachute is white (there are streaked with pale pink) like and compared with the similar near plane

                      The particular place we found bones is more different to the place of lady be good: rocky stones, sands no more
                      many animal footprints (fox or similar) not necessary the body mummified (eated from animals?)

                      We don't know if any object found there, as well as the bones, might belong to Copping

                      a stroke of luck

                      need, i presume, more expeditions for finding more things
                      maybe shoes or uniforms or femur are nearby but have not seen them ..
                      few days for mission!!!

                      Comment

                      • PeterVerney
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • May 2009
                        • 1021

                        Very good news. Many thanks for your dedication to finding F/S Copping
                        Man is not lost. Only temporarily uncertain of his position.

                        Comment

                        • shepsair
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 284

                          Copping

                          Can I post a note of caution similar to the discovery, similar to when we were awaiting confirmation of the identity - before we knew it was ET574.

                          If human bones, this seem good evidence considering the remoteness.

                          I think more evidence is required in tying in the remains to Copping and ET574.

                          Trying not to put a downer on it.

                          I, more than anyone (except the family of course) hope it is confirmed.

                          regards

                          Mark

                          Comment

                          • l.garey
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Feb 2006
                            • 1951

                            I agree with Mark. Until either more bones are found to confirm age and sex, or until DNA examination is done, then we must be cautious, in spite of circumstantial evidence. This is not to minimise the importance of the latest advance.
                            Laurence

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                            • Guest's Avatar
                              Guest

                              I would echo Shepsair's note of caution.

                              We do know that a major part of the parachute canopy was by the P40. It also seems that there is nothing (yet) that is 'RAF specific' in terms of the finds. It also seems to me that we don't (yet) have formal confirmation that the bones are human.

                              Comment

                              • DCK
                                DCK
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Feb 2006
                                • 1362

                                No matter the outcome, those guys have done amazing work
                                Norwegian Spitfire Foundation

                                http://www.norwegianspitfire.no/
                                https://www.facebook.com/NorwegianSpitfireFoundation

                                Comment

                                • paulmcmillan
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 2650

                                  Originally posted by Tangmere1940
                                  It also seems to me that we don't (yet) have formal confirmation that the bones are human.

                                  Maybe nor formal confirmation but

                                  on
                                  http://www.qattara.it/60-173%20Kittyhawk.htm


                                  it says (Google Transaction) "From my experience as a doctor does not slow to identify the remains as surely as humans: some costs, three or four vertebrae (7 th cervical, two thoracic and lumbar) integrates a left clavicle, a phalanx and metatarsal"

                                  Which to me says one of the team was a Doctor and he could ID the bones as human
                                  Weather - Fair with cloudy patches, clear by early evening.

                                  Comment

                                  • rreis
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Aug 2009
                                    • 140

                                    Originally posted by paulmcmillan
                                    Maybe nor formal confirmation but

                                    on
                                    http://www.qattara.it/60-173%20Kittyhawk.htm


                                    it says (Google Transaction) "From my experience as a doctor does not slow to identify the remains as surely as humans: some costs, three or four vertebrae (7 th cervical, two thoracic and lumbar) integrates a left clavicle, a phalanx and metatarsal"

                                    Which to me says one of the team was a Doctor and he could ID the bones as human
                                    Human they seem to be, but no certain ID has been made of them being of Coppins. I think thats what the other people are cautioning about.

                                    Comment

                                    • Guest's Avatar
                                      Guest

                                      I agree that does seem to be what we are reading, Paul; ie a Doctor identified them as such.

                                      I hope it is correct.

                                      On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge we don't have a pathologist's confirmation and, as with the aircraft i/d, I think there should be some considerable caution.

                                      It might just be me, but certain elements of this just seem a tad 'odd'. I suspect I am voicing what others might also think, too.

                                      I also hope that the Italian flag has been removed from its tailplane 'flagpole'. Not anti-Italian, by any means,but........

                                      I have just been trying to figure out the copper tag. It reminds me much of the weight tags fixed to old coal sacks - though I doubt the Bedouin have many coal deliveries! It is also marked Cad Cu (Copper Cadmium?) and a weight that looks to be 127 lbs. An odd thing to be with a flier or the P40. One assumes that it must have been something personal to the pilot (if associated at all with the P40 or the pilot) as it bears no AM stores reference. I realise this was a US built a/c, but did a UK based manufacturer supply parts to Curtis? If not, and if it is an AM piece of kit fitted to the P40, then wouldn't it have an AM stores reference? Certainly a curious mystery.

                                      Comment

                                      • l.garey
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Feb 2006
                                        • 1951

                                        A better translation:

                                        Dalla mia esperienza di medico non tardo ad identificare i resti come sicuramente umani: qualche costa, tre quattro vertebre (7 cervicale, due toraciche e una lombare) una clavicola sinistra integra, un metatarso e falange.

                                        From my experience as a medical doctor I did not take long to identify the remains as certainly human: a few ribs, four vertebrae (seventh cervical, two thoracic and one lumbar), a complete left clavicle, a metatarsal and a phalanx.

                                        Says almost the same thing, and confirms that it is a doctor writing. I for one would like to see some pictures (not on the thread, but to me in private if the team agrees). I have sent an e-mail.

                                        But, as I said before, we need more remains, and especially a DNA examination.
                                        Laurence

                                        Comment

                                        • Guest's Avatar
                                          Guest

                                          Laurence

                                          Certainly a better translation. Thank you!

                                          However....

                                          I also note that the Italian website implies that this work was undertaken for the RAFM:

                                          A five-day mission, three of which in the desert at 40 45 , an impeccable organization with the support of partners SIWA PARADISE EXPEDITIONS allowed five ARIDO researchers to carry out the task entrusted by the Management Authority of the UK, the RAF Museum.

                                          Thanks to SIWA PARADISE EXPEDITIONS, ITA


                                          Something might be lost in translation there. Is it the management authority of the UK RAF Museum or the Mananagement Authority of the UK (Government???....although a quaint description thereof!) and the RAF Museum?

                                          Comment

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