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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • shepsair
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2009
    • 284

    P40

    The family are aware it is not 100% confirmed but all of the circumstantial evidence supports it. The identity is the top priority following by finding out the possible whereabouts/outcome of the pilot. (Additionally the pilot photo in Daily Mail in the doorway is not of Copping, it is of Sgt Walter ? - of 260Sqn, a friend of Copping).

    So Butch Edwards has been interviewed in Canada. I am sure Ron Cundy will be interviewed in Australia. Whether the BBC will interview Suraman - Lord of the rings (Sir Christopher Lee) I don't know. He is frail I believe and interestingly was the Intelligence Officer with 260Sqn at the same time.

    Interestingly in Hanbury's book, Sir Christopher Lee does a forward and he recalls S/Ldr 'Pedro' Hanbury telling him, "one mistake and you are out; now lets go and get pi33ed". Cundy states he insisted on strict discipline both in the air and on the ground but was eminently fair. Edwards says we respected and liked him and most of all would follow him anyway.

    Final footnote, ~Hanbury claimed a Bf109 on 6th July in P40 Kittyhawk ET575.

    regards

    Mark

    Comment

    • Pat Murphy
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Aug 2004
      • 41

      Wing Commander James Francis 'Stocky' Edwards

      W/C Stocky Edwards DFC& Bar, DFM, CD and 2 Bars MiD and Order of Canada

      Stocky flew over 400 sorties during his 3 tours, He joined the RCAF In Oct 1940. During his service he flew with 94 Sqn RAF, 260 Sqn RAF, 417 Sqn RCAF, 92 Sqn RAF, 274 Sqn RAF and as Wing Commander lead 127 Wing at the end of the Second World War. His autobiography 'Kittyhawk Pilot' was written in collaboration with Michael Lavigne as was the limited edition book
      Kittyhawks over the Sands' both books mention in part some of the events the day Sgt. Copping went missing. Stocky retired from the Canadian Air Force in 1972

      For furher information on those events, the book written by RAF veteran Jack Sheppard DFC 'Some of our Victories' who served with 260 Sqn tells a compelling story of attempting to get Copping to turn around, he was not successful. Ron Cundy RAAF DFC, DFM, MID also a former 260 member also mentions the story in his autobiography 'A Gremlin On my Shoulder.

      If this recently found Kittyhawk is the Kittyhawk that Sgt. Copping flew into the desert on June 28, 1942 then let us hope that we can solve a 70 year old mystery and put all speculation to bed.

      During the recent CBC TV interview Stocky Edawrds said he has thought of those events for 70 years and has wondered what happened, I'm sure many former 260 Sqn pilots and ground crews had the same thoughts. Right now my thoughts are with Coppings family.

      Comment

      • Snoopy7422
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Oct 2011
        • 840

        How Many?

        Just out of interest, does anyone know how many P40's were lost in North Africa during the whole War...?

        Comment

        • H-87A-2CU
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Mar 2004
          • 17

          Snoopy

          Define lost.......how many shot down, but recovered later, shot down and speared in (as in total loss), Shot up but returned only later written off, or my all time Favourite Shot up, damaged, destroyed and written off but later brought back on charge (if indeed the paperwork ever caught up). If anyone ever wants a lesson in frustration try tracking aircraft in North Africa - its good for the soul and changing your hair grey.

          If you are after the total number of aircraft written off and never brought back on charge that can be arranged (as long as a date range is given).

          Buz

          Comment

          • wieesso
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2006
            • 1862

            ...maybe it's already posted
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUMat...endscreen&NR=1

            Comment

            • Shay
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Oct 2006
              • 24

              "All quiet on the Western Front"...eh?

              Shay
              ____________
              Semper Fortis

              Comment

              • shepsair
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Oct 2009
                • 284

                P40

                No news is good news?

                Mark

                Comment

                • Dobbins
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Feb 2012
                  • 448

                  Sadly, I can't imagine that in this case. No news is.. it's been pecked apart and there's nowt left?

                  Comment

                  • 43-2195
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • May 2012
                    • 334

                    Mark, Weren't you expecting a site visit and update a couple of days ago?
                    SEEKING LOCKHEED P-38 PARTS, WILL BUY OR SWAP.

                    Comment

                    • Lincoln 7
                      Better than Rank 1 user
                      • Jun 2010
                      • 8403

                      This aircraft was on T.V. two days ago, and showed the locals stripping everything and anything they could get.
                      Jim.
                      Lincoln .7
                      There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

                      Comment

                      • vacb
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Apr 2004
                        • 220

                        How sad and very disappointing.

                        I can't help but think that, given this news, it would be better to be completely reduced to nothing rather than it be displayed a shadow of its former self. Too much of a reminder of what could have been

                        The most important thing for me now is that the pilot is identified and if possible, a search conducted for his remains so that he can be finally laid to rest.

                        Comment

                        • TonyT
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Oct 2006
                          • 9023

                          Jim sure it wasn't them just removing the guns and ammo?

                          Comment

                          • kdf38
                            Rank 4 Registered User
                            • May 2012
                            • 2

                            Destination LAT/LONG ? Restore or as found?

                            What was the DESTINATION of this flight and the LAT/LONG of the destination? I noticed someone had said LG-85 as origination. I think
                            that should be LG-185 (LG-09) from what has been mentioned in this Thread.

                            I think I would want any Warbird to be flying.

                            Make a fiberglass replica of the as found condition if you want to display that.

                            Mike
                            -==================-
                            Several years ago someone found the remains of one of ~30 1938 prototyp
                            Volkswagen KdF-Wagens in Lithuania. ALL *WERE* supposed to have been destroyed... Many people thought it should be left as found - part of the original body which was then "modified" with a DKW hood and sitting on a Soviet Volga water-cooled car chassis. (very ugly)

                            It was found to be #6.

                            VW38 06 was completely restored within 12-18 months of returning to Germany. I'm glad it was RESTORED and not left as found.

                            It's an Amazing story/ thread 2.3 million views...

                            -==================-

                            Comment

                            • 27vet
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Nov 2009
                              • 2698

                              Originally posted by vacb
                              How sad and very disappointing.

                              I can't help but think that, given this news, it would be better to be completely reduced to nothing rather than it be displayed a shadow of its former self. Too much of a reminder of what could have been
                              Bleeding savages . I found the position of the plane on Flash Earth and it is only about 45km from an oasis to the east. I wonder if the poor pilot had any idea of that?
                              sigpicHindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

                              Comment

                              • Lincoln 7
                                Better than Rank 1 user
                                • Jun 2010
                                • 8403

                                Originally posted by TonyT
                                Jim sure it wasn't them just removing the guns and ammo?
                                Tony. No, I saw the lads removing those.
                                Jim.

                                Lincoln .7
                                There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

                                Comment

                                • Lincoln 7
                                  Better than Rank 1 user
                                  • Jun 2010
                                  • 8403

                                  @954. Ralph, he may have been too injured to have managed 45 miles, as I understand it, he was taking it from "A" to "B" simply for repairs. Probably sods law dictated he may even have flown over the Oasis.
                                  Jim.

                                  Lincoln .7
                                  There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

                                  Comment

                                  • Bruggen 130
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2004
                                    • 1786

                                    scum

                                    It doesn't surprise me one bit Jim, once they know we were trying to salvage it their hatred of us would drive them to destroy it.

                                    Comment

                                    • Lincoln 7
                                      Better than Rank 1 user
                                      • Jun 2010
                                      • 8403

                                      Bruggen130. Guess it was a good thing they didnt get the guns and ammo, I would imagine they would soon have been enabled to be made into a working condition. As for the bits the were taking, it wouldnt surprise me to see them trying to sell the bits back to us.
                                      Jim.
                                      Lincoln .7
                                      There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

                                      Comment

                                      • Tillerman
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2005
                                        • 301

                                        I wouldn't go on with calling the inhabitants, the people who actually live there, names. Someone must have attended those people to the interest that was generated in this Kittyhawk worldwide, in all kinds of internet forums and the press. At least some of them must have access to the www and spread the word that they repeatedly are called 'names' amongst others. That doesn't good to negotiations about the permissions needed to salvage what is left of the aircraft.

                                        Tillerman.
                                        They locked up a man
                                        who wanted to rule the world
                                        The fools
                                        They locked up the wrong man

                                        -Leonard Cohen, Songs Of Love And Hate

                                        Comment

                                        • 27vet
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Nov 2009
                                          • 2698

                                          Yes mate, you're quite right. They are fine upstanding young gentlemen. We should not denigrate them.
                                          sigpicHindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

                                          Comment

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