Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Max Wedge
    Registered User
    • Apr 2012
    • 6

    Yup, that's the plate with the Curtiss Wright build number and (in my case) the USAAC serial number.

    Not sure of RAF orders had the RAF serial number stamped there, but it seems likely.

    I have a full set from a P-40M...just need the rest now

    Comment

    • pat1968
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Apr 2004
      • 260

      I believe all US aircraft supplied to the UK had USAAC numbers?
      "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

      www.hawkerhind.com

      Comment

      • Mike J
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2000
        • 3241

        Originally posted by pat1968
        I believe all US aircraft supplied to the UK had USAAC numbers?
        Not those supplied by Curtiss under direct purchase (rather than Lend Lease) AFAIK

        Comment

        • shepsair
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Oct 2009
          • 284

          I think with the broken canopy perspex, we can all assume there will be no main data plate. Also all of the ID tags to the scolloped perspex area have also gone. There some hope one or two may still remain in hidden locations which we know about.

          Also it looks as though the story will hit the British press on Friday so will be interesting to see what will be reported. Sure it will then be in the Aus, NZ, Can and US press before you know it.

          Not sure what is being written and what is being said, all I know is what has been said to me, in that you can probably read in Friday/this weekend.

          As for confirmation of ID - still waiting!

          regards

          Mark

          Comment

          • Bmused55
            Aaahh Emu!
            • Oct 2003
            • 11136

            The gradual destruction of this once "as abandoned" pristine relic is making my blood boil. To think the craft has survived everything the desert threw at it for 70 years, only to be vandalised by scumbags.
            Bmused55

            Keep thy airspeed up, less the earth come from below and smite thee.

            My Blog
            My Designs

            Comment

            • 43-2195
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • May 2012
              • 334

              There is a "Radio Call" brass plate missing from roughly 2 inches behind the canopy crank instruction placard on the upper right longeron. The only unstealable Identity designator will be the Curtiss Constructors number stamped into the upper surface of the left lower longeron(between frames 3 and 4....I think).
              Mark(Shepsair) any feedback from the latest visit?
              SEEKING LOCKHEED P-38 PARTS, WILL BUY OR SWAP.

              Comment

              • Guest's Avatar
                Guest

                Was the engine number not stamped into those 'flats' on the front of each head? Or on the front cam shaft pedestal? If so, they should survive even if the main plate has gone.

                However, the engine number alone is not going to be sufficient, is it?

                Even if the AM 78 records the engine number then this is usually just the engine the airframe was delivered with and subsequent engine changes were not recorded.

                Comment

                • Desoto
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 31

                  The E models did not have a Data/ Makers Plate mounted on the starboard longeron, this was introduced on later models. Not any originals I've seen to date. But always happy to be proven wrong.
                  Cheers,
                  Ashley.

                  Comment

                  • pat1968
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Apr 2004
                    • 260

                    well that is encouraging! If the s/n is stamped into the longeron as well there is a fighting chance of identifying her!
                    "Only the dead see the end of the war" Plato

                    www.hawkerhind.com

                    Comment

                    • H-87A-2CU
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 17

                      Originally posted by pat1968
                      well that is encouraging! If the s/n is stamped into the longeron as well there is a fighting chance of identifying her!
                      Hi Pat1968/Tangmere/43-2195

                      Yes the number is hand stamped on the Left Lower longeron and will consist of the Ship Number (please note that this is not the Constructors number, but is something called the ship number which was used for tracking on the factory and against the required total of aircraft to be built under contract and of that type....hence these ship numbers are reused). This isn't the only place where the ID may be, there are other not so well know places to look (will not say where online to give a fighting chance that the plates will still be there when someone goes for the information).

                      The other issue will be making sense of that number, as not all things were built in Sequence with P-40's, I know of cases with C/N's being used twice, and Serial number and Ship number match ups not being in Sequence, and these cases actually happened quite a bit, on top of ship numbers being reused (as I said they are just a factory checking number).

                      When there is no C/N or serial number plates, the actual identification of the aircraft is going to be quite interesting, as Ship numbers are not on the Form AM78, 1180 nor on the USAAF IRC for the aircraft, or any shipping documentation I have seen. This leaves just the Curtiss Factory records as the only way to positively 100% identify the aircraft, however if trying to do that, you need to find the Model Number (luckily we have this), the Ship Number (fingers crossed they'll find a plate or take the Dyson out to go for the lower longeron), and finally the Actual Curtiss records (the factory records for the Buffalo line) must be found, then you have to find the actual aircraft you are after. This is not something that will happen 2 mins after the number is known, might take a bit longer for 100% confirmation to come through.

                      As to US serials on RAF aircraft etc. Only the P-40E-1CU and onward have both a RAF serial and a USAAF serial. Before that all aircraft had an RAF serial only for RAF aircraft, and a USAAC serial for USAAC aircraft.

                      Tangmere - The engine number may be stamped into the engine heads, but this is not something I have seen before (but am no expert on the Allision), and additionally you have the problem with Allision engines of having both an Allision number and a FY number just to really confuse the matter, plate wise. However in the case of ET574 one of the actual engine numbers is on the Loss card which will be of great assistance should it come down to a Engine match only for ID.

                      Buz

                      Comment

                      • Guest's Avatar
                        Guest

                        Thanks Buz!

                        What do you mean by the "loss card" exactly?

                        Is this the AM1180?

                        And what is a form 1178?

                        Comment

                        • David Burke
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 10027

                          Bmused -my friend's P-2 survived a few hours in a field near Grantham before British scumbags got to it! I think if the P-40 had been in a field in the U.K we wouldn't be looking at anything after 70 years!

                          Comment

                          • H-87A-2CU
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 17

                            Originally posted by Tangmere1940
                            Thanks Buz!

                            What do you mean by the "loss card" exactly?

                            Is this the AM1180?

                            And what is a form 1178?
                            Sorry

                            typo in the form number it's the AM1180 (corrected above), and in the case of ET574 it has one of the engine numbers on it.

                            buz

                            Comment

                            • TonyT
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Oct 2006
                              • 9021

                              I wonder what is in the bottom of the cockpit, if he was intending to walk out, a possible note may have been left with direction, heading etc, possibly under the sand.

                              Comment

                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Guest

                                Thanks Buz!

                                I did wonder if that is what you meant.

                                Good news, then, if the engine number is on the 1180. Unless the souvenir hunters manage to get away the engine then that, at least, should be there somewhere - although I don't know what the numbering arrangements were on Allison engines. Merlins had the RR number and and "A" number and only one was listed on the 78 or 1180.

                                Comment

                                • SimonDav
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • May 2007
                                  • 152

                                  its in the torygraph now:

                                  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/avia...he-Sahara.html

                                  Comment

                                  • shepsair
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Oct 2009
                                    • 284

                                    P40

                                    Hi all

                                    I have read a draft press release (not RAFM) - but the UK press who are breaking the news.

                                    You'll be glad to know there is no mention of ejecting or jets though this is still dependent on what the newspapers own editors write.

                                    Made a few comments which hopefully will be taken on board if not too late. Otherwise, it is your normal press story you would expect.

                                    I am sure the papers may include incorrect wartime photos (probably showing a Spitfire), but the news item is going out with some of the recovery photos from Jakub.

                                    (Simon - just seen your post so obviously too late! "front landing gear", "Kittyhawk P40", "Belly flop". Oh well.)

                                    regards

                                    Mark

                                    Comment

                                    • shepsair
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Oct 2009
                                      • 284

                                      P40

                                      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml

                                      Comment

                                      • Mark_pilkington
                                        Rank 9999 Registered User
                                        • Jun 2004
                                        • 1791

                                        Well done!

                                        hopefully the British PM can now be prompted by the press to get involved in this find and increase the diplomatic activity with Egypt, and a recovery actually commence.

                                        Regards

                                        Mark Pilkington
                                        "Never has a Country so Big!, owed so Much!, to those who Flew!"

                                        Comment

                                        • paulmcmillan
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Jan 2000
                                          • 2650

                                          On the subject of Curtiss Build Numbers/Shop Numbers does anyone have a list or approx or at least 1 for any aircraft in the ET520 to EV699 range?

                                          Thanks

                                          paul
                                          Weather - Fair with cloudy patches, clear by early evening.

                                          Comment

                                          Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                          Collapse

                                           

                                          Working...
                                          X