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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • paulmcmillan
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2000
    • 2650

    Last known "alive date" is usually used (unless any evidence is available to suggest a later date). In this case if an aircraft was lost on 28 June 1942, the pilot Date of Death would be recorded as 28th June 1942

    System does have his problems and not 100% accurate IIRC some RAF deaths on the Lancastria in 1940 have dates of death on or after the ship was lost
    Weather - Fair with cloudy patches, clear by early evening.

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    • paulmcmillan
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2000
      • 2650

      IF and a BIG IF it is Copping's aircraft then he certainly has an interesting back story as he was borh 3rd Qtr 1917 with abirth registered in Rochford

      Acting Pilot Officer under a Short Service Commission on 20 Jan 1936, he then went to No. 10 Flying Training School, Tern Hill in February 1936, but his SSC was terminated on cessation of duty 17th July 1936

      In between time he had time to file this patent with an address in Southend On Sea

      http://patent.ipexl.com/GB/GB443466.html

      However, as we know he was a Flight Sgt - and his Service number #785025 was in a batch between 785000 to 786999 (highest known number 786379) issued in July 1940 to Local enlistments in Far East
      Weather - Fair with cloudy patches, clear by early evening.

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      • RAFRochford
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Feb 2006
        • 911

        Hi Paul;

        That's interesting information you've unearthed there! I note though, that the patent lists his name as being Coppin. Presumably, that is a mistake?

        I maybe wrong, but I think that 10 Warrior Square may have been demolished to make way for the municipal swimming pool. Must have a look next time I'm there.

        Regards;
        Steve

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        • ozjag
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Apr 2007
          • 834

          Has anyone else noticed that in the recently posted photos the rear port canopy perspex is intact whereas in the first 'hatch' photo it had been broken and the pieces fallen behind each other? Also it appears to me that the battery has been deliberately ripped open and the individual cells ripped out, doesn't bode well in my mind.

          Paul
          Facebook: Aussie Cockpits

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          • Steve Newman
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2010
            • 81

            Absolutely brilliant thread, what a find, just truly hope that its not lost to history by a modern day scavenger hunt.

            I'm based around 10 miles from Southend and have done a lot of research on local guys from my own town and have contacts throughout the local press that I am sure would love to run the story if it can be confirmed this is Coppings aircraft.

            If I can help in anyway on this just let me know and be happy to do what I can

            Kind regards

            Steve

            www.wickfordmemorial.com

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            • Guest's Avatar
              Guest

              If Copping, and in view of Paul McMillan's posting regarding his techincal/electrical expertise, this might (and I repeat 'might') have some bearing on the removed radio, batteries etc. Had he taken it out and tried to get it going and transmit a desperate message? Sobering thought.

              Also, note the parachute by the nose. Had the pilot rigged up a shelter/recognition signal/water condensation collector?

              Or, even, could his remains be in the sand right there?

              Also online at Kew are what seem to be divorce files for his parents in 1928.

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              • Dobbins
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Feb 2012
                • 448

                Originally posted by ozjag
                Has anyone else noticed that in the recently posted photos the rear port canopy perspex is intact whereas in the first 'hatch' photo it had been broken and the pieces fallen behind each other? Also it appears to me that the battery has been deliberately ripped open and the individual cells ripped out, doesn't bode well in my mind.

                Paul
                Ah yes, well spotted. They also smashed the right side cockpit canopy perspex and nicked the ring and bead sight. I fear for this unique aircraft.

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                • Guest's Avatar
                  Guest

                  Well, its a long way from anywhere....!

                  Not likely to see hordes of passing scavengers, I'd have thought - unlike the Calais Spitfire which was systematically robbed and vandalised.

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                  • Sutts
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jun 2010
                    • 26

                    Originally posted by Dobbins
                    Ah yes, well spotted. They also smashed the right side cockpit canopy perspex and nicked the ring and bead sight. I fear for this unique aircraft.
                    Looks like they used a machete to remove the ring and bead sight unfortunately.

                    Hope they're beginning to understand the value of it now.....but I doubt it.

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                    • shepsair
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 284

                      P40

                      Steve

                      As mentioned, I think the identity needs to be confirmed before everyone goes to try and find Copping's family and declare his aircraft has been found.

                      When the serial is confirmed then Innsworth/AHB want to be notified as it involves a missing pilot.

                      I would not like to be a family member who gets told his planes been found and then find out it is not correct.

                      IF it is Copping, you therefore might be in a good position to help but lets wait until the identity is confirmed. Should only be a couple more days.

                      Andy, also found the divorce in 1928 with another women involved. Who would be classed as the next of kin - mother or father. Mother died in 1967 in Rockford. Additionally, if on a repair, transfer flight would he have had his kit with him Sounds as though they were also in retreat. Lot of North African log books were lost especially when the pilot was killed/missing.

                      regards

                      Mark

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                      • Sutts
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 26

                        Originally posted by shepsair
                        Steve

                        As mentioned, I think the identity needs to be confirmed before everyone goes to try and find Copping's family and declare his aircraft has been found.

                        When the serial is confirmed then Innsworth/AHB want to be notified as it involves a missing pilot.

                        I would not like to be a family member who gets told his planes been found and then find out it is not correct.

                        IF it is Copping, you therefore might be in a good position to help but lets wait until the identity is confirmed. Should only be a couple more days.

                        Andy, also found the divorce in 1928 with another women involved. Who would be classed as the next of kin - mother or father. Mother died in 1967 in Rockford. Additionally, if on a repair, transfer flight would he have had his kit with him Sounds as though they were also in retreat. Lot of North African log books were lost especially when the pilot was killed/missing.

                        regards

                        Mark

                        Are you in touch with these guys Mark? Just wondered from your recent remarks about the stuff going on in the background and the 2 day comment above. Just an educated guess?

                        Cheers

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                        • Guest's Avatar
                          Guest

                          Mark

                          Not sure how NOK worked in those days. I suspect it rested with his father, although both mother and father are shown under NOK details with CWGC as you will have noted.

                          He could have had siblings, of course, as well as step-siblings or half-siblings.

                          I agree re the family, but I'd be surprised if any surviving family have not been tracked by someone, somewhere, already...even although the evidence is, at best, circumstantial. If they found out, then at least they can only be told that an aircraft that may have been his has been found. At least no body has been found; at least, so far as we know.

                          (On another matter, Mark, would like to be in touch with you soon-ish!)

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                          • paulmcmillan
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 2650

                            BTW has anyone got

                            Fighters Over The Desert

                            by Christopher Shores and Hans Ring and could tell us what it says for 28th June 1942 and the surrounding days in relation to 260 Sqn thanks


                            Please Ignore 28th June 1942 260 Sqn not mentioned at all..
                            Weather - Fair with cloudy patches, clear by early evening.

                            Comment

                            • Steve Newman
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2010
                              • 81

                              Absolutely, I would never jump the gun and try and trace the family or got to the local media, to then later be told it isn't his plane.

                              I'm purely offering local help should it prove to be Coppings plane and hopefully get some media attention that may, just may, help in finding the lost pilot and finally giving him the dignity of a decent burial.

                              In many ways I hope it isn't his plane and that the story of this one isn't as sad and lonely.

                              Offer stands for help and I will be watching the story with interest

                              Cheers

                              Steve

                              Comment

                              • Atcham Tower
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Mar 2005
                                • 780

                                The YouTube video now has a notation: "there is practically no possibility of the devastation of the plane because it is army complex - patrolled by the army."

                                Apologies if this has already been pointed out here, although I don't think it has.

                                Comment

                                • shepsair
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Oct 2009
                                  • 284

                                  P40

                                  Steve

                                  I knew you would understand that - general note to all really.

                                  Andy

                                  Could find no siblings nor remarriages. The mother did not remarry. could not find any wills either. Death certificates are the next though will do a deeper search tonight for siblings.

                                  Sutts
                                  :-)

                                  regards

                                  Mark

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                                  • Guest's Avatar
                                    Guest

                                    The problem is, of course, that the name is already out there on the net and thus it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it will be seen by a family member long before anything gets to the newspapers.

                                    Its happened before, and quite recently, too!

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                                    • TEEJ
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Oct 2005
                                      • 2354

                                      STORMBIRD262,

                                      Did you take the time to read the whole of this thread plus the comments on the video before making your statement? It has already been posted in the last few pages on this thread.

                                      From the You Tube videos

                                      The Egyptian government have been informed by the military. The army took only ammunition of the airplane to not hit the wrong hands. At the moment the plane is in the same state as in the movie. there is practically no possibility of the devastation of this plane because it is army complex - patrolled by the army.
                                      The plane was found incidentally - do not do the explorations..
                                      in mid-April, I'll try to go to the place where the plane - it will put more videos.

                                      Comment

                                      • Dobbins
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Feb 2012
                                        • 448

                                        Yes but they obviously didn't just take the ammo did they?

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                                        • TonyT
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Oct 2006
                                          • 9023

                                          Might be wrong but has anyone noticed anything glaringly obvious on this?

                                          https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6...az%2520182.jpg

                                          The Turn bank indicator if that is what they called it has a smashed glass, and judging by the sand behind it may of had for some time, as the Flight Director and the other instruments such as the Turn Bank indicator and turn slip indicators are i would have thought all Gyros run off the VAC System, has he had a fault with the system or suspects an blocked intake filter etc and is there an emergency procedure to smash the instrument glass and allow unfiltered air in.? the missing clock could have been removed by him for navigation, to try and walk out.....

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