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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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    DaveF68;

    Good catch on the original colours of the aircraft! You should post the info over on Hyperscale as they've been arguing about that issue years, along with the colours under the rear glazing.

    This really was an important subject for research. Lost for good it would seem.

    Comment


      Kenneth,

      FB is quite right - and they will have a standard policy document that covers such things. What you or I may choose to do in our own time, with our own property is one thing, but any organisation has a responsibility to protect its employees and subcontractors. Its another piece of information that demonstrates the seriousness of the endeavour - it was not, as some have said, just a case of dragging it across the desert, or cutting it up with a gas torch. It was a professional endeavour, done right.

      Comment


        The HSE have no control over activities in a foreign country, nor was it the RAFM recovering the A/C, therefore a mission statement, from them to include checking for fuel when in reality what hadn't been used up in the flight, would have evaporated over the subsequent 70 years, was pointless; were the recovery team really going to give up because all of the criteria given to them (by the RAFM) could not be met?



        Just seen your post Bruce, not a response to that as such!
        Why be your own worse critic, that's what the forum is for.

        Comment


          Its not about the HSE though Stuart - its about an organisation working to its own set of rules, and guaranteeing the safety of its staff and contractors. In any case, they were hardly onerous criteria.

          Comment


            Bruce, the HSE bit was in response to FB's post, the RAFM's piece was essentially a mission statement, but to me a pretty nave one, given the absolute hostility of the working environment, that said having watched the video excerpts, I think the recovery team did a remarkable job, even more of a shame how (and where) it has ended up.
            Why be your own worse critic, that's what the forum is for.

            Comment


              Buz,

              Thanks for your detailed info on how the P-40 was positively proven to be Copping's ET574. The aircraft's identity was logically known with high probability, especially based upon the faint HS-B paint on the fuselage, but to see the hard video evidence of a data plate, which was then cross referenced with other records, was the proof which eliminated any doubt.

              Because this data plate link was not trumpeted loudly on this forum, that I know of, I can only assume that the general reader deduced that the identity was solid already. Now it is a slam-dunk certainty. There have been other cases where an assumption of identity is all one has to go by, and in such instances a dissatisfying shred of doubt lingers. Well, despite all of the huge negatives in the Copping project, at least the identity of the P-40 has been proven without a doubt.
              Last edited by Matt Poole; 11th January 2018, 02:52. Reason: Typos, bleedin' typos, and that compulsive need to change Word A to Word B, later to be changed back to Word A.
              RAF LIBERATORS OVER BURMA (subtitled FLYING WITH 159 SQUADRON) by Bill Kirkness DFM and Matt Poole, published by Fonthill Media

              Comment


                MPoole,`quote` was loaded with baleen`!

                Comment


                  RAFRochford - will try, my Hyperscale login is a bit flakey these days - I did draw the attention of a couple of known P-40 researchers to this vid

                  Comment


                    Matt

                    No worries, the identification was taken off line for a couple of reasons these being:-

                    1. Aircraft sub model - many couldn't tell the subtype of the P-40, which was clouding the identification, so every suggested ID had to be chased and dis-proven (until the Plate shot was taken).

                    2. Still lots of discussion if the photos were fake or not

                    3. There were approx 35 aircraft unaccounted for, more than 1 of which was either ex 260SQN or serving with 260SQN at time of loss. A couple of suggestions were given on a few forums however everyone seemed to go off half cocked without doing the research.

                    4. Once an Id was confirmed there was more pressing issues to worry about that being a keyboard warrior and trumpeting the identification (mind you there was plenty of that going on once the idea of the id was out there). However with all the trumpeting there was no actual proof of how they got the serial number.

                    5. The number of abusive PM's I got (along the lines of you're wrong, what would you know, I'm an expert on P-40's because I have three Osprey books etc - one of the reasons I left the board for a long time).


                    As much as I don't like the finish of the aircraft now, at least its still in existence. The biggest worry I have is the weakness in the rear fuselage (that fuselage is not straight visually to my eyes), so I hope that it wont cause further damage to something that really needed repairing properly.

                    The only disappointing thing is the loss of the original paintwork, which I hope was adequately covered with photos during the recovery. One day hopefully these photos will be made available to the masses. At least the answers to the paintwork questions can be seen on the videos still out there (and the fact it looks like Mediterranean Blue not Azure blue unders)

                    Buz
                    Last edited by H87A-2; 11th January 2018, 02:44.

                    Comment


                      Buz (this time spelled correctly, with one 'z'...I edited my last message's typo),

                      Thanks for the further explanation. Sorry message board know-it-all (who don't know it all) blowhards made presenting the truth such a drag for you! Glad you've posted.

                      Matt
                      Last edited by Matt Poole; 11th January 2018, 14:39. Reason: AGHHH!! The IRONY!!! Fixing a typo in what I wrote about editing my last message's typo!!
                      RAF LIBERATORS OVER BURMA (subtitled FLYING WITH 159 SQUADRON) by Bill Kirkness DFM and Matt Poole, published by Fonthill Media

                      Comment


                        I find it intriguing that the first strong link to F/Sgt Copping appeared on 24 April 2012 (post #450), six days after the thread's first posting on the Historic Aviation Forum (18 April 2012). RAF Rochford reported that Terry McGrady over on Hyperscale had reported it.

                        For the first time in years, I looked back on the first few pages of the thread this morning.

                        The beauty of this forum is that people far and wide see a thread and start mulling over it. Consequently, there is often strong evidence presented by someone reacting to the initial data presentation with a unique expert's perspective. One thing builds on another. Beautiful.
                        Last edited by Matt Poole; 14th January 2018, 02:16.
                        RAF LIBERATORS OVER BURMA (subtitled FLYING WITH 159 SQUADRON) by Bill Kirkness DFM and Matt Poole, published by Fonthill Media

                        Comment


                          Hi Matt

                          Thanks for the reminder, I'll have to get back into contact with him.

                          Buz
                          Last edited by H87A-2; 13th February 2018, 07:44.

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