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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • Mark12
    MEANS MOTIVE OPPORTUNITY
    • Jan 2000
    • 10868

    Patch up 'Lady be Good' with some fibreglass, cover it in Home Depot gloss paint and park it next to the P-40
    LBG is in Libya.
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney"

    Comment

    • blackjet604
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Dec 2010
      • 37

      It’s very sad that there was no real way that the plane could have been preserved at the RAF Museum or otherwise in diorama form....however....there is very low utility in that plane for a “civilian”buyer. A loss for historians, but the Maude P-40 does fill the role.

      Today she is now extremely worthy raw material for a restoration, and thus could possibly fly again. At some point the Mk V and P-40 represent simply serious foundations for a project. Hopefully they will accept some fiberglass replicas in trade....

      Comment

      • l.garey
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Feb 2006
        • 1954

        Robbo: thanks for the information.

        I looked at the photos on that site. To add insult to injury the notice (that I assume is posted next to the aircraft) tells us that it is a "P40B Kitty Hawk". I thought it was in fact ET574, a P-40E Kittyhawk. Splitting hairs? Not in view of the fact that this is supposedly a reputable military museum, and also in view of what they have done to the relic.
        Last edited by l.garey; 29th December 2017, 13:43.
        Laurence

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        • Snapper
          "The goatboy done good."
          • Jan 2000
          • 5622

          Went there many years ago and had a good chat with the General in charge of Museums who was also the Minister of Defence.The red carpet was out, which we thought was a lovely touch, but that was for the Italian President or PM or whatever. Who went straight past in his cavalcade without stopping resulting in me and Jules, covered in dust and all sweaty having travelled up from Alex, being informed we had to go have a natter with him. Seemed a nice bloke.

          Probably shot in the Arab Spring.

          Random musing with no relevance whatsoever other than to say that if he has in fact survived and still has some say in things then you could always drop my name. Not that it'll do the slightest good. Nor will he remember me.
          Some of my best friends are imaginary

          Comment

          • Pulsar-xp
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Mar 2012
            • 166

            As long as european museums keep historical aircraft outside the museums or even scrap them after staying there for some years, we shouldnt complain about "restaurations" somewhere else. No question, its ashame what happened to this aircraft.

            Comment

            • flyingfigtree
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jul 2015
              • 23

              How ironic that the nation that gave birth to one of the first great civilisations is now one of the least.

              At least it wasnt blown up for representing the infidel.

              Comment

              • scotavia
                scotavia
                • Nov 2005
                • 2834

                I still maintain that is a matter of perspective, consider that there was a plan to fully restore the Halifax now at Hendon( actually one of the biggest RAFM museum balls ups ever)

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                • Kenneth
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 970

                  An absolutely incomparable display of ignorance, incompetence, idiocy and lack of intelligence.
                  The Largest German-Language Aviation Forum on the Internet

                  Comment

                  • David Burke
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 10031

                    The plan to restore the Halifax was supported by her former aircrew and very much by the RAF. I recall talking to Paddy Porter not long before his death about it - it was perfectly feasible -what the RAFM decided in the end is a very unsatisfactory 'get it on display' solution.

                    Comment

                    • RAFRochford
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Feb 2006
                      • 916

                      Well, on the plus side, it looks a darn sight better than MV459!

                      Seriously though, this is very disappointing. A remarkable time capsule lost and poor Dennis Copping still missing somewhere in the expanse of the North African desert. Like Dennis Copping, I'm from Southend on Sea too, so felt a connection to this story...albeit in a small way. A story almost as tragic as that of the Lady Be Good.

                      Comment

                      • Junk Collector
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Aug 2006
                        • 1465

                        not to mention the RAFM being out of pocket to the tune of a Spitfire. They could at least have put thanks suckers on the plaque
                        Officially now a pensioner

                        Comment

                        • skyskooter
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 414

                          Tragic. Imagine if they had done this to King Tutankhamuns death mask.

                          Comment

                          • Fouga23
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 2258

                            Someone on WIX suggested restoring the Sphinx with some bondo. Seems like a worthy comparison. Where's the daily rag when you need them to get a scandal out..
                            Magister Aviation
                            It's all in my book

                            Comment

                            • Junk Collector
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 1465

                              Skyshooter, Tragically, they did ......https://news.artnet.com/exhibitions/...attempt-229404

                              and by no means a unique incident

                              it would be interesting to see inside the cockpit to see the restoration standard in there, probably got MFD's fitted
                              Officially now a pensioner

                              Comment

                              • Southern Air99
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • May 2015
                                • 560

                                It is a bit off what they've done. They could at least have got the markings right....
                                They should've at least left some bits in their original state with the faded paintwork. Oh, and put it inside so it doesn't get ravaged by the sun further.

                                Comment

                                • Moggy C
                                  Moderator
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 20534

                                  Ranks alongside (or maybe even above) Kee Bird in the league of great aviation recovery failures.

                                  Moggy
                                  "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

                                  Comment

                                  • Zidante
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Feb 2013
                                    • 174

                                    It ranks alongside the 'restoration' of the fresco of Christ in Zaragoza...
                                    On top of every other considerable and over-riding issue the paintwork isn't worthy of an ill-informed child. That it was done by an institution selling itself as a museum in the 21st century just defies belief.

                                    Comment

                                    • Supermarine305
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • May 2012
                                      • 359

                                      The p-40 looks terrible. Its kind of like a sex doll with wings: garish, shiny and only really acceptable to those who haven't seen the real thing.

                                      However this is petty unfair. The exact preservation of aviation artifacts -keeping as much original aviation material as possible- is really a first world problem.
                                      Maybe the the lesson to be learned here is that spiriting away every find is not the correct, or affordable way to go. Perhaps its time to be open to aiding in restorations and sharing the knowledge and skills involved

                                      . I am not so much worried about what is in the photo -that has a long term future at least- but what was in the skip at the back of the museum.
                                      Last edited by Supermarine305; 30th December 2017, 12:15.

                                      Comment

                                      • Aviart
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2016
                                        • 97

                                        What a terrible state of affairs. A travesty of epic scale. Once again imbeciles have become the guardians of history. It is not history anymore and serves absolutely zero historical value.

                                        Comment

                                        • l.garey
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Feb 2006
                                          • 1954

                                          As far as I can see, there is no mention of the history of the aircraft, how it was found and how it got there. Above all, no mention of Flight Sergeant Copping. Or maybe there is some information inside the museum. Unless this aspect of the tragedy is dealt with, and spelled out, it just becomes another brightly painted "Spitfire" that visitors will not relate to time and place and circumstances. I wonder who was ultimately responsible for what has happened, at the museum end I mean. Why was the decision made and why those markings?
                                          Laurence

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