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Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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  • Junk Collector
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2006
    • 1465

    Just thinking along similar lines I just acquired something, I had to pay to have hauled to me. I didn't book the haulier until I had finalised everything, let alone pay for it
    Officially now a pensioner

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    • Bruce
      Independent analyst
      • Jan 2000
      • 10226

      Originally posted by Junk Collector View Post
      Be funny if it has just been moved down the road to a different storage point because it was in the way !

      As for the change of government, when this happened, before undertaking the recovery,surely the whole thing would have had to have been re discussed with the new government prior to any recovery attempt
      Err, I'm not quite sure I believe I just read that,

      The government changed in a military coup. Look it up. It wasn't a case of a change of democratically elected government, which might make what you propose possible. The government was overthrown one night. How exactly do you propose that the RAF Museum - an organisation right out on the fringe of our own government, could expect that to happen, and then negotiate for the release of something so utterly trivial, with a regime interested in just about everything else in the country ahead of it?

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      • Junk Collector
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Aug 2006
        • 1465

        Believe it or not, at the end of the day, it does appear someone has managed to do it,
        Last edited by Junk Collector; 15th January 2016, 15:22.
        Officially now a pensioner

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        • Bruce
          Independent analyst
          • Jan 2000
          • 10226

          Only if the vague rumour is true. Even if it is, it happened at quite some distance from the original work in dismantling it.

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          • Guest's Avatar
            Guest

            For what it is worth, and even if the rumour is true, then it would perhaps have been a surprising if not foolhardy thing to have done.

            Given the intense international interest in this airframe, and even if a supposed new owner had secreted it away to foreign parts in some kind of 'legal' (!) deal with whoever in Egypt, then it is an airframe that will be a bit of a hot potato I'd suggest. A bit like having a misappropriated Picasso in your vault. What on earth can you do with it without causing a brew-ha-ha?

            That said, the rumours are out there in some areas of the historic aircraft world on both sides of the Atlantic. But they are only rumours. On the other hand, of course, it was initially just a rumour that said the RAFM had handed over a Spitfire in exchange for work to recover the P-40.

            Wherever the P-40 is, and the USA seems unlikely, one can only hope that it is safe. More importantly, that the issue of Flt Sgt Copping gets to some kind of resolution in terms of what has gone on since the desert discovery of bones and that the outstanding issues and questions are at least resolved for the family with clarity and honesty even if there can be no absolute resolution.

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            • markb
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Feb 2009
              • 257

              or even a brouhaha...

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              • Guest's Avatar
                Guest

                Indeed.

                Although my preference would be Brew ha ha since I recently found a purveyor of their excellent Ceylon tea. Hence my unconscious use of their brand name.

                Editor's excuse. And he's sticking to it

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                • markb
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 257

                  You're not the first editor I've edited ;-)

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                  • Guest's Avatar
                    Guest

                    Your edit-check is appreciated!

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                    • Whitley_Project
                      If in doubt apply heat..
                      • Jan 2000
                      • 2844

                      Pat1968 has presented us with some broad, but credible figures for the cost of recovering the P-40 and I would agree with the amounts and his approach. Both Mark12 and Bruce have gone on record to say that 120,000 is a fair price for the P-40 recovery.

                      Perhaps they could put their heads together as let us know how they would have spent the remarkable amount of 120,000 to recover this aircraft?

                      Just to add, it is not my intention to embarrass anyone but as this deal involved a public assest this figure deserves scrutiny at the very least.


                      Originally posted by Mark12 View Post
                      You are avoiding answering the question. Your cost breakdowns re the P-40. Just broad brush will be fine.

                      Just the one email at the weekend to the party that wanted me to recover the Afghan Hinds...that would have been ahead of you.

                      I, or rather my wife, turned it down but I recommended he use a current or former service man with connections, to at least arrive in Kabul to a friendly face and a secure base.

                      I was invited to look at the containers and photograph the contents on his property when they arrived.

                      I published a couple of shots on his behalf some time later, if that was your concern. I think he wanted to show them off minimally as he was proud of the result.

                      If you were the sole financier, recoverer, importer, container procurer, transporter and owner, then that was not mentioned to me at that time.

                      Mark
                      Last edited by Whitley_Project; 20th January 2016, 10:47.

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                      • Bruce
                        Independent analyst
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 10226

                        No, Elliott, I wont - not on here.

                        Do what I did, and talk to the people that did the job. There is a big point being missed, but its not for me to say.

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                        • Beermat
                          1 Registered Rank Loser
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 3646

                          A very big point which can be guessed at even when one has no experience of aircraft recovery as a specific activity in this region? But one that might be understood by anyone who has had to do anything involving officialdom there? I am sure that was a factor, at least. Still seems a lot, though.
                          Last edited by Beermat; 20th January 2016, 18:40.
                          www.whirlwindfighterproject.org
                          It's all good. Probably.

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                          • Whitley_Project
                            If in doubt apply heat..
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 2844

                            A very murky business...

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                            • Bruce
                              Independent analyst
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 10226

                              No, it really isn't, but it isn't for me to break a confidence.

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                              • Uncle Mort
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • May 2004
                                • 22

                                Some Parliamentary Interest

                                Asked by Jason McCartney MP(Colne Valley) Asked on: 05 February 2016

                                Dennis Copping

                                To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, if he will make representations to the Egyptian government on the possibility of submitting human remains found in the Western Desert in 2012 if still in existence to new DNA tests to compare them with DNA samples provided by the family of Flight Sergeant Dennis Copping whose aeroplane crashed in the Sahara on 28 June 1942.

                                Answered by: Mark Lancaster MP Answered on: 11 February 2016



                                Rigorous DNA tests undertaken by the Egyptian authorities at our behest some three years ago were unable to provide viable DNA samples due to the age and degradation of the human remains found. There are no plans to undertake new DNA tests.

                                Comment

                                • l.garey
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Feb 2006
                                  • 1954

                                  Well that is interesting. We have gone over and over this business, and now the same stories come out in Westminster. First the bones were found, and we offered to test them, then a second set was found, but Egyptian authorities couldn't extract DNA, but it was said they were from two different people, then there was no second set, then someone decided that no tests had in fact been done. I got very mixed responses from the MoD and the British Embassy in Cairo. No-one seemed willing to answer my simple questions.

                                  Now I read that the same story is coming back into fashion: "Rigorous DNA tests" were done but nothing found due to age (what was the age of the bones found - how was that determined?). It was initially said they were hundreds of years old. Where are the bones now? I am surprised and frustrated by this "official" announcement. And Dennis Coppings' family must be even more frustrated than those of us who tried.
                                  Laurence

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                                  • Guest's Avatar
                                    Guest

                                    As an observation only, it doesn't answer the question by Jason McCartney MP: '....will [he] make representations to the Egyptian government on the possibility of submitting human remains found in the Western Desert in 2012 if still in existence to new DNA tests to compare them with DNA samples provided by the family of Flight Sergeant Dennis Copping?'

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                                    • DaveF68
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jun 2004
                                      • 1791

                                      11 months on from the last post, has anything happened? Is the silence good or bad?

                                      Comment

                                      • Robert Edward
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Apr 2008
                                        • 153

                                        Click image for larger version

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                                        Which airframe is this? On display at the El Alamein Museum, Egypt.
                                        Attached Files

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                                        • Propstrike
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Mar 2004
                                          • 4010

                                          Please no. It can't have ended up as that. Say it isn't so.

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