Photos: WW2 battle damage & accidents

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Member for

13 years

Posts: 422

Over the years, as an aviation enthusiast, I've been given odd photos. These I've stored away knowing that they were of interest, but with no idea of how to get them to the right expert. The internet has changed that radically. Hope these shots are of interest, and perhaps the 'experts' that reside on this forum can add some further detail.

First batch were given to me some 40 years ago by a WW2 North African Army veteran. They were not taken by Gill Hayes himself, neither was he certain how he came to have these 3x2" prints. There is nothing on the reverse of these prints as a clue. I know photos of Luftwaffe aircraft derelict in North Africa and Sicily are not rare, but as 70 year old prints they deserve to be seen. Some basic research provided by 'Acklington', although he states that he is no expert on the subject. Using the "Luftwaffe Data Book" he has increased my awareness of the historic background. A proper Luftwaffe expert could probably take the details much further, and give pilots, locations, and units!

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0009-15.jpg

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0007-14.jpg

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0004-16.jpg

To save others the basic research, here are the notes, and speculation, as a starter.

The three Bf109s are 'F' versions, and all three carry the 'Mediterrainean Theatre' white identification bands and wing tips (the noses would have had white as well). The first one is in proper desert camouflage of sand over mid-blue, as still carried to this day by "Black 6" in the RAF Museum. The other two appear to be in 'European' camouflage, with added sand coloured areas.

The first Bf109F has the Gruppe Adjudant chevron, possibly in yellow outlined in black. The absence of any other Gruppe markings is indicative of I Gruppe (as the first gruppe was always identified by no markings). Unfortunately the actual Jaggeschwader (fighter unit) badge is absent, as it was probably on the cowling which has been removed. But JG 27 is a possible candidate, as the other markings closely match their style.

The next Bf109F looks like 'Red 2', and the vertical bar indicates III Gruppe, with the bar also in red, outlined black.

The third Bf109F looks like 'Yellow 9', also of III Gruppe, and the vertical bar is also yellow, outlined black.

Further looking at reference works, shows that the three Bf109Fs are almost certainly from JG27, which was one of the more famous German fighter units throughout the War. Their pilots included many famous Aces, including Marseille, who shot down 17 British planes in one day in North Africa - mainly P-40 Tomahawks. He was killed in a flying accident later in North Africa.

Which brings me to the Bf109F photo that intrigues me most - number two - showing 'Red 2'. [NB the Luftwaffe Staffel colours were only ever White, Yellow, Red, and Blue; so assuming that this Bf109F is not 'Blue 2', then it should identify the Staffel within JG27.]

As can be seen, the souvenir hunters have been at work, hacking out the tail Swastika on two of the Bf109Fs. But also, on 'Red 2' the rudder has been stripped of fabric. At first glance this looks like battle or storm damage, but there is another possible explanation - the rudder was where Luftwaffe Aces marked their 'kills', in small vertical bars recording victim and date. The amount of fabric removed from 'Red 2' is consistent with a high-scoring 'Ace', possibly showing up to 30 or 40 kill markings. So either the rudder fabric was stripped by a souvenir hunter, or equally possible, by the Luftwaffe pilot/ground crew before they abandoned the airfield.

The 'Aces' changed aircraft frequently, due to damage, or obtaining a newer aircraft. The kill markings would then be re-applied to the new aircraft. The rudder fabric from the previous aircraft would help in doing this, as well as being a treasured relic in its own right.

So if this theory is correct, then 'Red 2' of III Gruppe/JG27 should be identifiable as having been used by a significant Ace, and may have accounted for a significant number of his Kills in North Africa.

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0006-16.jpg

The Ju87 Stuka is a 'D' model; i.e. Ju87D and carries the unit code 'S7' of Sturzkampfgeschwader I, and the letter 'P' indicates the 6th Staffel. The letter 'J' is the individual aircraft letter. Again, white theatre identification markings are carried.

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0008-15.jpg

The Ju52 carries 'H4' of Luftlandgeschwader I, and the final 'A' indicates the Geschwader Stab (HQ unit?). The other 'A' is the aircraft individual letter. This unit was not (it appears) based in North Africa, so it may have been on a supply mission when it was lost - landing accident judging by the u/c and wing-tip damage - then stripped for spares. The white fuselage band indicates that it was active in the Mediterranian theatre.

So these photos were almost certainly taken in North Africa, probably after the German defeat there. This would place the date in 1943.

This final shot from the same source, shows an Avro built Bristol Blenheim IV, Z9550, clearly following a landing accident in somewhat flooded conditions. I'm sure others can add some detail.

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0005-14.jpg

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This second batch of WW2 photos, came in an album of mostly '80s aircraft photos taken by a former colleague's father. All are 6x8" prints, so are not WW2 originals. I've no idea if they are copies or later prints from negatives. Anyone confirm the details of this accident to a Wellington Mk.II (note the Merlin engines) and perhaps add more?

Each print has typed on the reverse:

Middleton-on-the-Wolds, East Yorks.
7th September 1941
K-King. W5441
104 Squadron,4 Group, Bomber Command.

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0001-15.jpg

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0005-15.jpg

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0004-17.jpg

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0003-16.jpg

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0002-17.jpg

Again hopefully of interest to someone - and I would love to know more.

Original post

I think I may know a man who may well have the swatika panel from one of the first two Me 109s.....!! ;)

Member for

17 years 3 months

Posts: 119

Whilst it may only be of academic interest, your second set of photos were almost certainly taken with a simple box camera with a primitive single element meniscus lens. Such lenses produce the classic vignetting (loss of focus away from the centre of the subject) seen here. These lenses were fitted to practically all of the Kodak Brownie and Hawkeye range of mass produced budget cameras. In addition, some of your images show scratches to the negative as it was dragged through the film path. I often get these on one particular box brownie where the felt in the film path has worn, marking the emulsion. The camera that took the above must have been well used!

The shots were almost certainly taken on 120 or 620 rollfilm (still available today), with most cameras allowing eight shots per roll.

I've played around with similar cameras and the look is quite distinctive, especially when such prints are enlarged.

Member for

24 years 3 months

Posts: 3,185

Happy to agree with Airspeed Horsa on that one - the doggy shot shows just how old-fashioned Efke emulsions really were, it's hardly distinguishable tonally from the WW2 ones! Sadly, the factory has gone ****-up this summer, and we will not see the like again - possibly the end of 127 as well.

Do keep posting, these are fascinating!

Adrian

Member for

16 years 3 months

Posts: 1,919

I can't help with specific details but I can say that I recognise several of your 3 x 2 photos. I have an album with 40 plus photos of different aspects of the Desert War, including operations on land, sea and air. Most of them are in the same 3 x 2 format, and have what looks like a catalogue, or print number stamped on the reverse.

I've always assumed they were official photographs (at least one or two appear in the ubiquitous H.M.S.O. Official Publications that were sold in their thousands and which still turn up regularly on eBay, at car boots, etc.)*

I wonder whether individual prints were sold to the troops as souvenirs of the campaign?

*This kind of thing...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WWII-HMSO-Publication-RAF-Middle-East-1945-1st-Air-Operations-Feb-1942-Jan-1943-/281007607320?pt=Antiquarian_Books_UK&hash=item416d5bce18

Member for

13 years

Posts: 422

Thanks for the comments.

The information from 'Air Ministry' regarding the distribution of souvenir prints to the troops is interesting, and consistent with my source not knowing how he acquired them. There are no numbers on the reverse of the 3x2" desert prints.

I am a little surprised, knowing the depth of knowledge of records kept by some experts on this forum that no one has come forward with details of the career and fate of Blenheim IV Z9550, or confirmation and the details of the fate of Merlin Wellington II W5441.

Member for

16 years 11 months

Posts: 2,004

Lovely photos Viscount, thanks for posting. According to Air Britain Wellington W5441 only served with 104 Sqn. Engine cut, crashed in forced landing, Middleton-on-Wold, Yorks. Would make for a lovely then and now comparison. I would imagine the farmer got some useful compensation for flattened cabbages.

Member for

24 years 3 months

Posts: 10,029

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h365/viscount701/IMG_0009-15.jpg

I wonder. :)

Mark

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/Mark12/IMG_2463a.jpg

Member for

18 years 1 month

Posts: 2,115

Airspeed Horsa:
You mention 120 film in connection with some of these photos. I have a number of my black and white pictures on 120 and 2.25 square film. How can I scan them? I have an Epson V350 scanner which takes 35mm, but I can't get it to scan anything wider than 35mm.
Any ideas? Thanks

Member for

24 years 3 months

Posts: 3,185

Epson have made various scanners that will take 120 - I have a V500 (look up the Old Style Old Warden thread in Airshow Photos for examples of its work), that set me back £180 but you might be able to get an older model for less second hand?

Adrian

Member for

18 years 1 month

Posts: 2,115

Thanks Adrian