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Structural problems with Flugwerk FW 190 A8/N in Germany

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  • Mike J
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2000
    • 3241

    Structural problems with Flugwerk FW 190 A8/N in Germany

    http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/news/201...al%20owner.pdf

    http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/news/201...190%20A8_N.pdf

    Scary stuff!
  • Avro Avian
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2010
    • 587

    #2
    Oh dear! Not a good look...

    Comment

    • TonyT
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Oct 2006
      • 8916

      #3
      Some cool riveting there...... Not.

      Odd thing is, without looking you may find the originals might well of exhibited similar in service. And although that is poor workmanship, I bet that done by slave labour was a whole lot worse.. Would be interesting to compare the two, new build against original.

      Comment

      • QldSpitty
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Apr 2006
        • 2549

        #4
        Waaaay to much power on the gun or too small a dolly on the other end..
        "If the C.O. ask's you to be Tail End Charlie...just shoot him!!!....A Piece of Cake.
        http://spitfirea58-27.blogspot.com.au/

        Comment

        • Avro Avian
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2010
          • 587

          #5
          Mind you, I have seen some shocking metal work on original Spitfires. I'm amazed they ever flew at times.

          Comment

          • Bruce
            Independent analyst
            • Jan 2000
            • 10194

            #6
            The originals were good; much better than is shown.

            Comment

            • Mike J
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2000
              • 3241

              #7
              Originally posted by Bruce View Post
              The originals were good; much better than is shown.
              German engineering vs Russian engineering!

              Comment

              • Al
                Al
                Embittered old curmudgeon
                • Feb 2010
                • 1216

                #8
                Distinct lack of quality control for such an ambitious and high-profile project...
                Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!

                Comment

                • paul178
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 2925

                  #9
                  After seeing that "rubbish" it makes me want to weep. I don't know what the guys at Meier Motors think of it. I don't think they would tell us.Two sides of German engineering! If that was my aircraft and you can't examine it with a scope I would want it taken apart and checked before I set foot in it.
                  I have kleptomania,But when it gets bad
                  I take something for it.

                  Comment

                  • Mike J
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 3241

                    #10
                    Originally posted by paul178 View Post
                    ........Two sides of German engineering!.........
                    As alluded to in my post #7 above, I believe that most of the Flugwerk structures were built in Russia (you will note that the bulletin refers to 'Aerostar' as the manufacturer)

                    Comment

                    • markstringer
                      Mr T wannabe
                      • Sep 2005
                      • 1024

                      #11
                      Was this the all silver example which was at meiers?
                      I PITY THE FOOL

                      Comment

                      • Mike J
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 3241

                        #12
                        Originally posted by markstringer View Post
                        Was this the all silver example which was at meiers?
                        Yes. It is also the ex-Tom Blair example. With hindsight, perhaps it is a good job that it didn't end up cavorting in the skies over Duxford!

                        Comment

                        • Bruce
                          Independent analyst
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 10194

                          #13
                          I have noted a number of issues from those two pictures, which are not related to the quality of the rivetting. Poor though that is, it isnt the biggest problem.



                          Bruce

                          Comment

                          • Whitley_Project
                            If in doubt apply heat..
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 2825

                            #14
                            Ouch - I suppose its riveted like that throughout the entire aircraft... Were they assembled in Russia as it's cheaper?

                            Comment

                            • David Burke
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 10010

                              #15
                              Depth of countersinking and general condition of the skin looks to be poor. I would be interested to know if the aircraft has a g meter fitted.

                              Comment

                              • duxfordhawk
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Sep 2003
                                • 2336

                                #16
                                Originally posted by David Burke View Post
                                Depth of countersinking and general condition of the skin looks to be poor. I would be interested to know if the aircraft has a g meter fitted.
                                It does not look good does it?, Can they honestly resolve these issues with the airframes?
                                Martin
                                To see my photos go to,

                                http://www.flickr.com/photos/dxhawk/

                                Comment

                                • DaveM2
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 754

                                  #17
                                  Aerostar is Romanian NOT Russian.

                                  We have found no evidence of the problem in the aircraft at Omaka, and as I understand it the ex Blair machine is an isolated case. The wings on Yagen's and the ex Jaquard aircraft are also very strong, according to Meiers.

                                  Dave

                                  Comment

                                  • Mike J
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2000
                                    • 3241

                                    #18
                                    Ooops, sorry Dave, you're quite correct.

                                    Another example of the type, Dan Kirkland's recently-flown Flugwerk, was damaged in an off-runway excursion at Casa Grande this morning.

                                    The type does seem to have a rather chequered record, several accidents/incidents for very few hours flown.

                                    Comment

                                    • TonyT
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Oct 2006
                                      • 8916

                                      #19
                                      The heads might not be countersink issues but simply pulling through the skins, problem is without seeing it close up you cannot tell, as for the tails, well without drilling them out you would not necessarily know there was a problem with them, you cannot inspect every aspect of your subcontractors work, otherwise you might as well do the job yourself as you would in effect be reducing it back to a pile of parts.

                                      Comment

                                      • QldSpitty
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Apr 2006
                                        • 2549

                                        #20
                                        Looks in mirror..

                                        Originally posted by TonyT View Post
                                        The heads might not be countersink issues but simply pulling through the skins, problem is without seeing it close up you cannot tell, as for the tails, well without drilling them out you would not necessarily know there was a problem with them, you cannot inspect every aspect of your subcontractors work, otherwise you might as well do the job yourself as you would in effect be reducing it back to a pile of parts.
                                        The problem is with the process.A good sheety has the power to say I just put in a good rivet,if not take it out.The job is then checked off by a Quality control officer who "inspects" the job who has the power to say "Yes it is a good job" or "No the rivets need to be redone".
                                        The painter can look at the work and go "Gee that looks not good",inform his supervisor and have it redone..The manager when handing over the keys can say,"hey who did that crummy job?"...The owner can can say "Hey that doesn,t look like a professional rivetting job!" and can have it redone under warranty..
                                        Self responsibility works wonders....
                                        "If the C.O. ask's you to be Tail End Charlie...just shoot him!!!....A Piece of Cake.
                                        http://spitfirea58-27.blogspot.com.au/

                                        Comment

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