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By: - 28th March 2012 at 13:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
T.4 -Sole remaining example still on gate guard duty at Boscombe long after
when a replacement more common type could have replaced her.
But it is theirs, and very relevant to the airfield and the operators' past.
The T.5 at Cranwell is an outstanding example of the type in preservation, as good as any aircraft indoors, all be it a live 'exhibit'.
Must admit I could never get my head around the P.1B, XA847, story, wasn't it part of a national collection once?
By: - 28th March 2012 at 13:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
But it is theirs, and very relevant to the airfield and the operators' past.The T.5 at Cranwell is an outstanding example of the type in preservation, as good as any aircraft indoors, all be it a live 'exhibit'.
Must admit I could never get my head around the P.1B, XA847, story, wasn't it part of a national collection once?
I think XA847 was at Hendon in the early 70's when the RAFM first opened.
Rgds
Bill
By: - 28th March 2012 at 14:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The T.5 at Cranwell is an outstanding example of the type in preservation, as good as any aircraft indoors, all be it a live 'exhibit'.
Guess you mean Cranfield old chap! ;)
Think its only fair to point out Newark's example is getting some serious tlc currently as well...
By: - 28th March 2012 at 14:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for the observation re-XS417 but WADR to the OP, NAM’s example is a gutted shell and it was cut to move it back in 1988; albeit in a different manner to most of the others.
Sadly it is unlikely to go inside in the foreseeable future; but at least in the last 12 months it has yielded some useable spares for some ground-runners. :)
The airframe is due for turning round in the coming weeks to allow more work to be done in better conditions on the other side of the airframe. When that happens more pictures will be added to the Album in this Gallery! ;)
By: - 28th March 2012 at 14:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pagen - the word 'theirs' is fairly vague when it comes to Boscombe Down!
I am not sure technically who the owners of the Lightning are ! Whilst it is indeed highly relevant to the airfield -it won't be that relevant when it has corroded to the stage where they feel it's not safe to sit on its perch!!
Maybe a highly relevant Boscombe Tornado F.3 could replace her when its retired or a grp Spitfire could provide a link with the distant past!
By: - 28th March 2012 at 14:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As for XA847...
"...was finally retired in 1972 to display at the RAF Museum at Hendon. Unfortunately when the RAF Museum gained a more representative Lightning F.6, XA847 went up for tender. This was a rather disgraceful affair in that the scrapmen had just as much chance of buying this historic aircraft and turning it into saucepans - however thankfully Wensley Haydon-Baillie bought her instead and stored her dismantled in the Southampton area for some years.
The 1994 Farnborough SBAC show saw her re-assembled and on display in the static, but then she disappeared into storage once more until Wensley's bankruptcy when she was acquired by Marine Salvage near Portsmouth. They happily knew her historic value and didn't reduce her to scrap, hoping a museum would take her off their hands.
This, incredibly, did not happen - but a private collector, Giles Howell, bought her and intended to fully restore the aircraft and place her in a dedicated building to keep her in good nick. The most recent update I have had on her is that, unfortunately, over ten years down the line, she is still stored in a dismantled state."
See: http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/lightning/survivor.php?id=7
Breif recap
June 1969: Withdrawn from use at Henlow (468 flights/205 hrs total)
1972: To RAF Museum, Hendon
08/06/1988: Sold to Wensley Haydon-Ballie
mid-1990s: To Marine Salvage, Portsmouth
19/02/1998 Sold to Giles Howell
28/10/1998 Moved to Stowmarket, Suffolk
By: - 28th March 2012 at 18:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I've a soft spot for XG329 at Flixton. F1 development machine with F3 fin. It was in the hangar at Swinderby when I joined up, and is well looked after these days.
By: - 28th March 2012 at 18:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I've a soft spot for XG329 at Flixton. F1 development machine with F3 fin. It was in the hangar at Swinderby when I joined up, and is well looked after these days.
I have happy memories of marching past that at Swinderby too.
On topic though, there is also a severe lack of F2 Lightnings, with just 1 complete example in the UK after 728 was scrapped and a couple in Germany.
By: - 28th March 2012 at 19:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pagen - the word 'theirs' is fairly vague when it comes to Boscombe Down!
I wasn't being as flippant as I may have sounded, Boscome Down became the home of Aircraft & Armament Experimental Establishment and Empire Test Pilots School, while also hosting RAE, DERA, & laterly Qinetiq (as well as many other associated testing bodies), and it is synonymous with British post-war military flight testing. When I say 'theirs', I mean all of those.
The Lightning is probably the most suitable type to represent that work, XL629 being very closely linked to Boscombe having served most of its life there.
I know people like to claim right over gate guards, or like to see them moved elsewhere to be publicaly displayed, not helped by the fact that some of these aircraft are difficult to view, but these airframes serve a relevant purpose to the memories of personnel and stations.
Also, do we know that this aircraft is being neglected to the point that it will become a corroded wreck? I would also assume that if it is moved that the RAFM would have first shout on it? - such as with the Lyneham Comet.
By: - 28th March 2012 at 20:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the Boscombe Down Lightning is probably a curiosity at most! The number of people who pass through the gate each day who have had any direct link with the operation of a Lightning T.4 must be slim to non existant.
Regards corrosion -without an internal survey its hard to get a true picture -however by the very nature of what its made of corrosion is happening !
If you look at various pictures on the net you can see the canopy going milky white -that is a symptom of exposure . So whilst all may appear fine -paint hides a multitude of problems.
By: - 28th March 2012 at 20:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Never understood why great effort was expended to get a wonderful Lightning to a Kent museum, Mind you, photographing it at that location was prohibited, anyway, as its former jockey discovered (or so I am told) when he turned up to renew acquaintance.
I photographed it and all the other exhibits there back in about 1991:eek:
"Ok Guv, I'll come quietly, it's a fair cop blah blah, ridiculous policy, blah flippant reply blah blah... get back copper you ain't takin me or me Kent Aircraft museum interior shots alive blah blah blah, loads of B of B film mock ups previously available to photograph at Chilham, Southend and Torbay blah blah..." :p
By: - 28th March 2012 at 21:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Maybe its time I came clean as well ! In the family album there is a picture of a young me in front of a replica '109' at Kent's Area 51 !
By: - 28th March 2012 at 22:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
"Roobarb and David Burke, put your hands up and step away from the Hawkinge photographs, negatives and notebooks, there is no escape you are surrounded..." :D
By: - 29th March 2012 at 01:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
On topic though, there is also a severe lack of F2 Lightnings, with just 1 complete example in the UK after 728 was scrapped and a couple in Germany.
And none are original F2s, but the developed F2A - there was a genuine F2 survivor at West Drayton (XN769), but that was scrapped when the RAF left
http://www.aviation-picture-hangar.co.uk/xn769.html
The cockpit still survives in Malta
By: - 30th March 2012 at 17:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hello Andy,
The cockpit section you are referring to (XP701) currently resides at the Robertsbridge Aviation Society and can be visited and photographed on certain open days. To see some photos of XP701 click here and for a potted history, click here. Any additional information or photos regarding XP701 would be most welcome.
By: - 30th March 2012 at 18:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thankyou for putting the link up of the pictures of her ...........she could do with alot of love by the looks of it:confused:
By: - 30th March 2012 at 19:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Its a good question as to who owns the Lightning at Boscombe as where it currently sits is RAF Boscombe Down and not the QietiQ site which is MOD Boscombe Down. The other Boscombe inmates who frequent this forum will confirm this.
By: - 31st March 2012 at 19:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
XS417
I thought it would be good to clear something up, Newarks T5 is nearly complete in the cockpit with all the panels except the Main panel fitted. They have a pair of complete seats but the cockpit is in need of radar controllers and Control columns. So hopefully in the near future the cockpit will be reunited with its seats and other bits. So if anyone has any of these bits spare i`m sure Newark would be very interested.
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By: David Burke - 28th March 2012 at 12:26
Looking at the preservation of the type -there seems to quite an uneven balance in how they are preserved . The machines that concern most are the ones that seem to be overlooked i.e :
P.1B-Very little is ever reported on her . Whilst undoubtedly in good hands -how she ever managed to escape national museum care is still baffling.
T.4 -Sole remaining example still on gate guard duty at Boscombe long after
when a replacement with a more common type could have happened.
T.5 - As far as I am aware there are no examples permanently undercover in the U.K and the majority are examples that have had wing chops .Examples which are structurally and systems wise intact are very thin on the ground.