Fighter Command V.C. in World War Two.

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Can anyone explain why only one Victoria Cross was awarded to pilots of fighter command in WW2?

Regards,

kev35

Original post

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RE: Fighter Command V.C. in World War Two.

in paper today they said they are awarded for a person who had a 90% chance of death, was witnessed by a senior officer and it was exceptional bravery. it was in the telegraph today. they listed the survovrs and all the recent ones were korea and malaya veterns.

rabie :9

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RE: Fighter Command V.C. in World War Two.

I don't know about the percentage chance of getting killed being valid, but for any military decoration two things have to happen, firstly the act has to be witnessed, and secondly someone has to make a recommendation. For a fighter pilot to have his act seen by someone else is probably the most difficult bit, air combat tends to be one on one, or one against a load of opposition when your mates are too busy fighting to be paying much attention to what anyone else is doing! Secondly comes the recommendation. Pilots who flew a lot of combat and survived, were recognised by the award of other decorations which could be recommended by scrutiny of combat records. But these would not qualify for a VC which required a particular act of courage in one particular action.

KeithMac

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RE: Fighter Command V.C. in World War Two.

Indeed, it was a pre-requesite that the 'deed' was witnessed, not necessarily by an officer. Fighter pilots (in those days) had a lonely life. The one VC from Fighter Command was as you know awarded to Flt Lt J B Nicolson VC. His act of bravery was immense given that he was technically shot down and was exiting the plane when the 'hun' passed his sights. The act of getting back into a stricken aircraft and intending to shoot down foe was certainly worthy of a VC. There were various ground based witnesses. Many Battle of Britain historians feel that there is at least one other worthy VC that had witnesses. Not least, Percy Burton. The nature of the way the VC is won tends to lead to a great deal of posthumous awards. Incidentally Nicolson VC won his VC flying from Boscombe Down.

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RE: Fighter Command V.C. in World War Two.

I take the point about the deed being witnessed, but there were other occasions during the Battle of Britain, as has been noted. Two incidents which spring to mind are where Mackenzie chewed off a 109's tail with his prop, becoming known as Mackenzies knock, and the incident where I believe a Hurricane pilot chased a German aircraft across London after Buckingham Palace was bombed.

The second point about the V.C. being awarded for a particular act of courage for a particular action doen't really stand up. Leonard Cheshire was awarded his V.C. for outstanding bravery and leadership of 617 sqdn over a period of time. If that is so might not the likes of Johnnie Johnson have been awarded the same honour for their leadership and bravery over an extended period of time.

One further point is that when the V.C. was instituted, the original wording on the cross was to be 'for bravery', to which Queen Victoria replied it should read 'for valour', because all of her soldiers were brave. A sentiment which I believe holds just as true today as it did then.

Regards,
kev35

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RE: Fighter Command V.C. in World War Two.

sorry i didn' say the 90% in't a rule but, and i'm not sur ehow the paper put it but its sorta acepted.

rabie :9

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RE: Fighter Command V.C. in World War Two.

The one that has always stood out for me was the case of Sgt Ray Holmes, the Hurricane pilot who rammed a Dornier overhead Victoria Station. I've found this website...

http://www.battleofbritain.net/bobhsoc/times_150940.html

... after a google search, and it contains the following extract from The Times, dated 17th September 1940:

--------------------------------------------------

Many Londoners cheered as a Dornier bomber crashed at Victoria Station. The bomber was shot down by a sergeant pilot from West Kirby, Liverpool. It was his first fight. After he had destroyed the Dornier he had to jump by parachute, and landed in a Chelsea garden.

"We were at 17,000ft. when we saw about 30 Dorniers coming towards London," he said. "We were flying up the river, which we could see between patches of cloud. The enemy were converging from the south-east. I was in the last section of my squadron, and the squadron leader led us into the attack.

"My Dornier took all that I had to give him. Bits flew off him, and I broke away, intending to turn round to attack him again. Black oil covered my windscreen. I did attack again, but I think it must have been a different machine. Anyway, as soon as I fired a big flame shot up. I must have got his petrol tank."

HEAD-ON ATTACK
The sergeant pilot then broke away again - and turned to make, a head-on attack on another Dornier, firing a burst straight into its cockpit. At first he thought a piece of the Dornier had flown off, but then he saw it was a German baling out. So near did he pass that he thought he touched the parachute. A moment later he was in trouble himself.

"As I made my final attack my right wing struck something. I went into a terrific spin. There was no response from my controls and I spun towards the earth. I flung the hood back and struggled to get out. I must have been doing well over 400 m.p.h. when I finally got out of the cockpit. While I was spinning down I went through cloud. When I did get out the wind was so strong it was like a piece of an aeroplane hitting me. People on the ground later told me that my parachute opened at only 300ft. Anyway I know that I was pretty low when it did open, for I should think I floated down for only 10 seconds."

"I spun across a house, got my feet down on a gutter slid down the roof, and fell into the garden on my back. Just before I touched the roof I saw a German machine, no doubt the one I attacked, spiralling down in a most leisurely fashion. Two girls came to me and saw that I was an R.A.F. man. I was so glad to see them that I kissed them both."