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  • Eddie
    Smart Ạrse Member
    • Jan 2000
    • 1383

    #81
    OK... because it seems like my last post wasn't noticed, here's the picture that I was referring to, with red lines overlaid on the outer and mid section leading edges. All of the Halifax photos appear to show a straight taper on the wing panels, whereas this shows the clearly differing tapers of the mid and outer panels.
    Attached Files

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    • Eddie
      Smart Ạrse Member
      • Jan 2000
      • 1383

      #82
      And here's a late Halifax for comparison:
      http://crimso.msk.ru/Images6/MM/MM-64/0214-03-2-2.jpg

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      • John Aeroclub
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jul 2006
        • 2761

        #83
        Eddie
        Yes thank you for the photo. I didn't comment on it earlier as I was already aware of the differing tapers and mentioned this in an earlier post. As I've said all along the two wings are quite different but they have much structure in common. It's a pity but C.H. Barnes HP book omits totally any specific detail on the revisions to the Hastings wing.

        The mid wing units in question probably use the same ribs but have longer spars.

        John

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        • Eddie
          Smart Ạrse Member
          • Jan 2000
          • 1383

          #84
          No problem John - I just wanted to illustrate it, as it seemed like the question was still open. Unfortunately the trailing edge is a little trickier to use as a datum as the flaps confuse the issue. I'd suggest that a photo of the leading edge, taken from directly underneath the outboard engine, would settle the issue of whether the wing on Friday 13th was modified.

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          • AutoStick
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jun 2011
            • 768

            #85
            Hastings

            Hello , new man here. Just wondered if the attatched helps. My late Dad ( P/Ocentre) on a ATC jolly , probably about 1958 , to Gibralter.I believe the Hastings was taking engine spares to a Valetta marooned on the Rock.
            Last edited by AutoStick; 10th July 2012, 10:05.
            sigpic

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            • Deryck
              Ex RAF EMT.
              • Jan 2006
              • 227

              #86
              OK, here is the dimensions of Halifax NA 337.

              Now remember the wings are some 10 feet off the ground so there could be some margin of error as I measured it with a 35ft steel tape, since I did not want to haul out scaffolding!

              The Intermediate Wing is about 8 feet 6 ins and the outer wing, with the engine on it, is about 30 feet 6 ins.

              Although the measurements are rough they should suffice for the debate.

              Oh dear, I forgot to measure the engine spacing! Maybe next week! (At a guess I would say that the spacing is about 13 feet.)

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              • pagen01
                St Mawganphile
                • Aug 2007
                • 10711

                #87
                Nice work Deryck, when you look at drawings and cutaways the Hastings intermediate wing section definitely looks more substantial.
                The bit that still confuses me (dosen't take much!) is that With the Halifax wing the outer wing break line is just inboard of the outer engines with the flaps extending across that joint to be partly housed in the outboard wing sections, whereas on the Hastings the wing joint is outboard of the outboard engines and at the natural flap to aileron joint.
                Therefore the Hastings intermediate section span must be greater anyway to accommodate the outboard engine and spacing, but in theory the outer wings would be shorter because of that.
                The change in leading edge sweepback wouldn't necessarily mean a major change in wing design, but it does suggest that the intermediate section is extended over the amount needed just to hang the engine on and result in the increased span.

                Be interesting to know how Elvington got around all these detail differences.

                PS I have done some illustrations showing the differing wing breaks, but my scanner's gone bang! This link shows the Halifax breakdown quite nicely though, http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...halifax%20wing

                If anyone gets the chance to get any more measurements (esp the Hastings for me) between engines and wing breaks etc it would be great to see them here.

                Nice picture and story Autostick, and welcome
                http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=...t=most_popular

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                • Blue_2
                  Meteor spanner monkey...
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 4961

                  #88
                  I'll have a go at the weekend Pagen. If I remember to buy a new tape measure, as my last one gave its life for the forum measuring Friday's track!
                  Restoring Meteor NF.14 WS788, one rusty nail at a time...

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                  • pagen01
                    St Mawganphile
                    • Aug 2007
                    • 10711

                    #89
                    Oh well it didn't die in vain
                    http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=...t=most_popular

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                    • bazv
                      olde rigger
                      • Feb 2005
                      • 5861

                      #90
                      I went up to Elvington for the 'Noseless' Rollout in 93/94 ?
                      I took quite a few detal pics but now cannot find most of them
                      Here is the only (poor) pic I can find,in case anybody didnt see it circa last xmas...


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                      • TwinOtter23
                        NAM volunteer-Plugmeister
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 7734

                        #91
                        :diablo: We could organise a Tape-Fest on TG517!

                        Im over at Newark this afternoon to do my Scuttle Tours bit but I think Ill struggle to get time to take any measurements Ill see if anyone else has time to do something!

                        What exactly are people looking for re the Hasting wing?
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                        • pagen01
                          St Mawganphile
                          • Aug 2007
                          • 10711

                          #92
                          Originally posted by Mark_pilkington View Post
                          Pagen my understanding from my post on the first page was that the Hastings/Hermes is a 113' Span, 1408 SQFt Wing, while the Halifax is a (@mk I)98' 8" or (not sure where I originally got 103' 8" from??) (@mk VI) 104' 2" span 1190 SQFt wing?

                          I'm sorry but I cant find any online reference to a 34.2M (112' 2") span Halifax wing? - can you advise your source?

                          Is this a mismatch or misquote of feet to yard conversion not feet to Metre conversion as 104'2" = 34.7 Yards
                          Originally posted by pagen01 View Post
                          I have a typed spec sheet giving 34.2 on later marks, and there is an online resource that lists every Halifax mark and the wingspan, and gives the later models as 34.2, darned if I can find it at the moment.
                          However it looks like I and that source were wrong, and you could be right, 'Flight' lists the Halton (which had the final wing) wingspan as 103'8" (31.6m)
                          Just found the online source, http://www.sonsofdamien.co.uk/Halifax.htm, it looks well put together but I guess the weight of evidence now suggests that it is wrong.

                          Originally posted by TwinOtter23 View Post
                          What exactly are people looking for re the Hasting wing?
                          Personally speaking I would love to know the distances of wing tip to the first wing join (just outboard of outer engine), the intermediate section span (ie from that join to the one just outboard of the inner engine), and confirmation of the centre section span - however I entirely undertstand that this isn't the easiest of tasks!
                          http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=...t=most_popular

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                          • TwinOtter23
                            NAM volunteer-Plugmeister
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 7734

                            #93
                            Originally posted by pagen01 View Post
                            Personally speaking I would love to know the distances of wing tip to the first wing join (just outboard of outer engine), the intermediate section span (ie from that join to the one just outboard of the inner engine), and confirmation of the centre section span - however I entirely undertstand that this isn't the easiest of tasks!
                            I may struggle with that myself this afternoon, however I do have a tame surveyor who may rise to the challenge unfortunately hes not due to be at NAM today!
                            Find out what's happening at newarkairmuseum.org
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                            • pagen01
                              St Mawganphile
                              • Aug 2007
                              • 10711

                              #94
                              Certainly no rush from me, like to do things Cornish style - dreckly!
                              http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=...t=most_popular

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                              • Deryck
                                Ex RAF EMT.
                                • Jan 2006
                                • 227

                                #95
                                Pageno1.

                                It looks like it could be a typo as, although the span is indicated to be longer, the wing area does not change.

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                                • CeBro
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Sep 2009
                                  • 2132

                                  #96
                                  If we could pull BB214 out of the lake then we could measure it's wings very accurately.:diablo:

                                  Cees

                                  Comment

                                  • TwinOtter23
                                    NAM volunteer-Plugmeister
                                    • Jan 2006
                                    • 7734

                                    #97
                                    Originally posted by pagen01 View Post
                                    Certainly no rush from me, like to do things Cornish style - dreckly!
                                    I had a quick look this afternoon and whilst I could see the outer wing joint the one between the engines was not apparent (to my non-engineering eyes)!

                                    I will ask my 'tame surveyor' to have a look next week!

                                    Has anyone checked in Tim Senior's excellent publication on the Hastings (D & V Publishing) - Appendix 1 contains a lot of technical data?
                                    Last edited by TwinOtter23; 23rd June 2011, 18:56.
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                                    • pagen01
                                      St Mawganphile
                                      • Aug 2007
                                      • 10711

                                      #98
                                      Originally posted by Deryck View Post
                                      Pageno1.
                                      It looks like it could be a typo as, although the span is indicated to be longer, the wing area does not change.
                                      Very good point and beautifully presented!

                                      Interesting pic there Baz, be interesting to see others.

                                      T/O I think from underneath the engine nacelle might obscure the inboard join a bit, but the flap is split at that point, thanks for trying. I haven't seen that book.
                                      http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=...t=most_popular

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                                      • pogno
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Dec 2005
                                        • 1176

                                        #99
                                        Originally posted by AutoStick View Post
                                        Hello , new man here. Just wondered if the attatched helps. My late Dad ( P/Ocentre) on a ATC jolly , probably about 1958 , to Gibralter.I believe the Hastings was taking engine spares to a Valetta marooned on the Rock.
                                        While everyone is busy measuring things, bit like Adrian Mole, nobody mentioned this picture which looks to me like a Hastings (Met.)1 in the Medium Sea Grey upper and White lower colour scheme. Only ever operated by 202 Squadron from Aldergrove. Thanks AutoStick.

                                        Richard
                                        "Where are you from?"
                                        "America" Somebody laughed politely.

                                        Comment

                                        • TwinOtter23
                                          NAM volunteer-Plugmeister
                                          • Jan 2006
                                          • 7734

                                          I have spoken to the 'tame surveyor' and he asked the following question:

                                          "Is it likely that the information would be in the relevant Hastings AP?"
                                          Find out what's happening at newarkairmuseum.org
                                          Please help move Chinook ZA717 to Newark Air Museum

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