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Avro Shackleton WR963 Project Thread

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    #21
    trust Mr mills's advice. Acrylic base with lacquer top coat is the way to go. Most cars use this direct from the factory now. it is extremely tough, UV resistant, safe to spray, and exceptionally forgiving.

    Unless your enamel is a heavily oil based one with a mat pre primer, don't bother, it wont last ,without constant attention.
    http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.c...g/mainsite.htm

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      #22
      Originally posted by richw_82 View Post
      WL745;No, WR963 doesn't have the fishtail exhausts. She has the pipe style later exhausts. I'm not sure we would fit them even if we had them (exhaust stains = more cleaning!). I know they are more fitting to the period, but we are only trying to represent how she would have looked. We still have the majority of AEW lumps and bumps on the aircraft!
      The ones you have are the most fitting for the period considering it is still largely an AEW, plus this exhaust system was trialled on odd MR.2s from at least late 1954 (WG531 sadly lost with WL743 on 42 Sqn). Most 2s were fitted out with this later exhaust system (mod.320) at Phase II (being standard on MR.3s since inception), however there were odd MR.2s seen in the late 1960s without the later system.
      Apparently the fish tail jobbies had a tendancy to come loose in flight!
      Last edited by pagen01; 3rd August 2010, 10:50. Reason: adding mod. no.
      http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=...t=most_popular

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        #23
        Originally posted by mjr View Post
        trust Mr mills's advice. Acrylic base with lacquer top coat is the way to go. Most cars use this direct from the factory now. it is extremely tough, UV resistant, safe to spray, and exceptionally forgiving.

        Unless your enamel is a heavily oil based one with a mat pre primer, don't bother, it wont last ,without constant attention.
        Without looking at the specs sheet I've no idea what it is. However, we did make perfectly clear to the paint supplier (who contacted the manufacturer on our behalf) what we were doing, and they recommended the paint we're using.

        Acrylic is a great idea, but has loads of long term health risks due to isocyanates in the hardener. As we don't have access to spray booths, filtered masks and the like, it was never going to happen. My brother currently suffers from respiratory problems caused by inadequate precautions taken by his former employer using this stuff; so I know just how nasty it can be. I'd have to disagree with your comment about it being "safe to spray". Even those using it professionally are subject to regular lung function tests.

        Manufacturers have started using a non-isocyanate paint, which is water based... but it requires all different kit to spray, as the water attacks steel components in spray guns. Unfortunately nobody has managed to perfect water based lacquer yet; so you end up back with isocyanates.

        It's enough to make your head bend!!

        Pagen;

        I had heard the stories regarding counting how many stubs had gone missing at the end of a flight! WR963 won't be in the white forever, so there's not much to be gained by continually changing things around.

        Personally, I'd like to see her sporting long bomb doors and a pair of Hispanos though if nothing else.

        Regards,

        Rich
        Last edited by richw_82; 3rd August 2010, 10:23. Reason: Spelling. The idiot at the keyboard lacks caffeine based beverage, causing subsequent concentration loss.

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          #24
          Fishtail stubs also came of during engine runs at dispersal!Loud clang and a long flame!Usually the sortie was cancelled until a new one could be fitted! I cannot comment on the effectiveness of the pipe type exhaust but with the fishtails the noise for the groundcrew as well as aircew was deafening!! Now after some thirty years in Power stations I wear a hearing aid!!

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            #25
            its the hardeners that are dangerous as they contain the isocyanate, and various other carcenogens. if you use them without the hardeners the risk is relatively low. Personally I have never used the hardener in acrylic paint, and never had any problems with it curing or its durability afterwards. if you want it really hard you can go for a waterborne Acrylic lacquer afterwards, which I have done a few times, again I have found no issues with it so far. you could always roller it. ,you can roller acrylic and enamel, with good results. As for the detriment to your spray guns, well yes, but your not going to have to paint it again for 6-7 years, and your not putting 1000s of hours on the guns, so unlikley to be a problem for your purposes.
            http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.c...g/mainsite.htm

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              #26
              Those hardeners are a bit nastier than people sometimes realise... I didn't realise you could use acrylic without though. What are the drying times like in normal air temperatures?

              We've decided the best approach for us would be using rollers, as we can get a lot of people covering a large area, without the need for specialist kit. Theres been several panels done now and the enamel looks to be a good choice.

              The other problem with spraying is where we are on the airfield. There's no power other than our little generator, which would struggle to power a compressor big enough to run spray kit from.

              We're hoping the new paint will last a few years. The original plan was to get her in a hangar and strip her thoroughly, but I think that has been pushed a way into the future.

              As to the fishtail exhausts, I don't know how loud they were, but having heard '963 in January running with the pipes, I'll bet it was spectacularly loud.

              Regards,

              Rich

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                #27
                ah yea, i forget you guys are runing off of a generator, rollering is pretty good though. drying times, when I have used it without hardener, its taken about 3-4 hours to go hard, but probably overnight to go off completely hard to be able to flat down etc,

                it doesnt really matter what you use outside with sea grey, it will look horrible after 5 years regardless. I dont know what it is about pigments in Sea Grey paints, but they seem to be much more sensitive to UV break down.


                look forward to seeing your fresh paint job :-)
                http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.c...g/mainsite.htm

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                  #28
                  WL795 is rollered (cellulose I think) and was from first repaint, comes up very well if you use the right pile etc.
                  http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=...t=most_popular

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                    #29
                    Right,

                    I mentioned earlier that we had some visitors, who were doing a charity calendar... what I didn't realise is that they were going to be on Central News! Good job I avoided that chap who was hefting around the TV camera.

                    Here's the youtube link for those that are interested. It should be safe, but as ever with youtube, you take your own chances once you click.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rogofOcA0A

                    Regards,

                    Rich

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                      #30
                      40's pin-up girls and a sneaky glimpse of a Canberra bum...I'm a happy chappy!

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                        #31
                        Hi
                        Noticed from the u tube footage that the Nimrod has moved since my last visit. Any plans in the future for parking her next to 963.
                        Cheers
                        Jeff.

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                          #32
                          Originally posted by TT18Timbo View Post
                          40's pin-up girls and a sneaky glimpse of a Canberra bum...I'm a happy chappy!
                          Wrong way around surely

                          Like the one in yellow, and the one in green.. and arn't the news readers nice up in that region1
                          I must get out more
                          http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=...t=most_popular

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                            #33
                            Jeff,

                            I doubt the Nimrod would be very happy on the grass next to us, we get away with it due to the large tyres (even so 963 makes a little dent where she is stood) and we can't really move down to the pan for the moment with the scaffolding.

                            I know there were plans to ground run the Nimrod at some point, which I would guess limits where it can be parked.

                            All the aircraft are moved around so it's not impossible they will be at some point. I'll ask on Saturday to see whether they're ever destined to be side by side. When the Nimrod arrived, 963 was lined up with all the others to meet it.

                            Regards

                            Rich

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Well, today was a wet and wild day! I managed to muster some more volunteers from my area, bringing a couple of Air Cadets with me to work on the Shackleton today, which bolstered numbers somewhat. They were both top lads, hard working and a credit to their unit (2326 sqn, Clay Cross. Well done lads.)

                              Despite the odd bit of rain, we managed to get the remaining bits of ceconite strips doen on the wing, so the upper surface is now finally ready for its paint! Grey paint will be going on as soon as the suppliers pull their finger out...

                              Here's a few pics:



                              You saw the outboard section, now here's the inboard! We're really pleased with this, as during the rain there is no water leaking through the spar/trailing edge joint undeneath as there was before; so this annoyingly messy job is already paying off.

                              What's that? You saw a white bit? Ohh yes...



                              The first few of many cowling panels have been painted and fitted. There are more arriving!

                              We had quite a few visitors, including several members of the Shackleton Association. Norman Thelwell has brought his MR1 nose section (VP293) up to Coventry for us to care for.



                              And there, ladies and gents is where the bad news starts... VP293 has been stored at Duxford for a while. Since the last time Norman came over, she has been stripped out. When I say stripped, I mean robbed blind, with no regard for anything other than what was taken.

                              A new thread has been started to cover the theft of parts from the aircraft

                              So all in all, a real roller coaster of a day.

                              Regards,

                              Rich
                              Last edited by Bruce; 16th August 2010, 08:06.

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Good work guys. And terrible news about the nose section. I had the priviledge of going in it a few years ago and it was a beaut. I hope the scrotes responsible are found and nailed up. I volunteer to do the nailing.
                                Restoring Meteor NF.14 WS788, one rusty nail at a time...

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                                  #36
                                  Rich, as always i admire your continuing hard work and efforts towards 963's preservation.. well done .

                                  As for the saga of the missing cockpit items from 293 i am just speechless. Wonder if the same would of happened to an airworthy Spit should the owner fail to keep up with storage charges?!
                                  Facebook page
                                  https://www.facebook.com/Westland.Wy...tif_t=page_fan

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                                    #37
                                    Blimey....

                                    963 looks lovely.... well done Rich and thanks for the update (PM ground but did Ben give you a contact that I passed him for a "raffle" prize to raise funds?)

                                    as for '293... sawn through !? crazy.... just crazy....
                                    You can teach monkies to fly better than that....

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Please - someone drop the second shoe.

                                      What is happening.

                                      Mo
                                      Never complain about growing old - far too many have been denied that privilege
                                      http://www.avroshackleton.com/

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                                        #39
                                        Mo,

                                        At the moment not much more is known than is posted on here. Hopefully Norman now knows more, but its for him to decide if he wants to make it public or not. I was just asked to make it widely known that the items had been taken without his knowledge or consent, and how it had been done.

                                        As such, I feel I've done that. I'll do my best to keep everybody updated if I get any more information (and permission to post it)... but for the moment it's best left alone.

                                        The only thing I can really repeat is that if anyone sees any MR1/T4 stuff crop up on ebay or elsewhere, let me know.


                                        WL747... just caught your comment. Don't worry, this topic isn't disappearing again.

                                        Regards,

                                        Rich

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Thanks Rich,

                                          I don't want to misdirect this thread. I have emailed Norm. I'll leave this thread to get back on track.

                                          Mo
                                          Never complain about growing old - far too many have been denied that privilege
                                          http://www.avroshackleton.com/

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