Unknown French type captured by the Germans?

Read the forum code of contact

Member for

20 years 9 months

Posts: 608

This one has got us stumped over on the LEMB, so can anybody here identify the French type pictured below?

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Unknown_French_Type.jpg?t=1270590818

The photo is reproduced from the Avions Hors Serie Nr 24 'La Debacle de Mai-Juin 1940 - ce que trouverent les Allemands en traversant la France' and is captioned as being captured by the Germans at Toussus le Nobel along with other aircraft in various states of condition. Any pointers or suggestions very much appreciated.

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Original post

Member for

17 years 8 months

Posts: 2,766

Well it's got me stumped too. I think the a/c behind is a Potez 58.

John

Member for

17 years 7 months

Posts: 1,861

This one has got us stumped over on the LEMB, so can anybody here identify the French type pictured below?
Any pointers or suggestions very much appreciated.
Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Hi Peter,
I've posted the photo in a French forum - we'll have to wait...
Rgds
Martin

Member for

16 years 7 months

Posts: 5,927

The following is the response, so far, to the appearance on the French forum:

"ce n'est pas la première fois que je vois un appel au peuple sur cet appareil, mais je n'ai jamais vu de réponse.
Il a un air de famille avec l'amphibie Caudron PV-200 conçu par Pierre de Viscaya et présenté au salon de 1932. La motorisation haute et l'aile supèrieure (la seule pour le PV-200) semblent identiques. Je n'ai pas trouvé jusqu'à présent d'informations très élaborées sur les oeuvres de cet ingènieur".

Summarised, it says that it's not the first time that the identity of this aeroplane has been sought but it resembles the Caudron PV-200 amphibian designed by Pierre de Viscaya and exhibited in 1932.

Member for

17 years 7 months

Posts: 1,861

You're the first ;-)
Just got the same answer from Michel Barriere :rolleyes:

Member for

16 years 7 months

Posts: 5,927

Sorry, I should have said, Martin - that is Michel Barrière's response to your post!

Member for

20 years 9 months

Posts: 608

Many thanks indeed chaps, very much appreciated! :)

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Member for

19 years

Posts: 2,895

Looking at the layout of the aircraft - I would put "amphibian" very low down on the list of possibles.

Surely it couldn't take-off/land with the lower wing on/in the water?

Roger Smith.

Member for

16 years 7 months

Posts: 5,927

I should have been a little more precise in my translation. "Air de famille" translates a "family likeness" so the suggestion is not that it is an amphibian but that it appears to have similarities to the Caudron PV-200 amphibian.

There is another post on the subject on the French forum but as Martin initiated that, I'll not steal his thunder for a second time!

Member for

20 years 9 months

Posts: 608

Here is a photo of a Caudron P.V.200 reproduced from Flight Magazine Nov 24 1932

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/CaudronPV200.jpg?t=1270641344

There certainly is a resemblance and there is no reason to think that a land-based version of the amphibian could have been developed - but then again, there are more differences than matches.

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Member for

18 years 10 months

Posts: 2,757

Looking at the aircraft above and to the right, with four fuselage windows and the arrow along the fuselage - did they assemble it upside-down?!

Member for

13 years 11 months

Posts: 18

To be honest it has me stumped. too many differences between those two types though. I thought could it be a home-built type but it appears to have the tricolor of the French Air Force on the rudder and the fin/rudder shape (sometimes a give away to manufacturer) could be Dewotine or M/S ???

Over to those who know more than I.

Regards

Member for

17 years 7 months

Posts: 1,861

I should have been a little more precise in my translation. "Air de famille" translates a "family likeness" so the suggestion is not that it is an amphibian but that it appears to have similarities to the Caudron PV-200 amphibian.

There is another post on the subject on the French forum but as Martin initiated that, I'll not steal his thunder for a second time!

Please, Michael, do it - your translation will be more precise than mine ;-)
Martin

Member for

16 years 7 months

Posts: 5,927

Ce soir, j'espère. Il y a plusieurs réponses maintenant!

Member for

17 years 7 months

Posts: 1,861

Ce soir, j'espère. Il y a plusieurs réponses maintenant!

Oui, je l'ai noté déjà!

Member for

16 years 3 months

Posts: 52

My personal 1 euro cents worth

I think that it looks like a glider, it had the lower wing, struts and engine retro fitted.

Probably wrong, as often before.

And obviously the undercarriage fitted

Member for

20 years 8 months

Posts: 8,505

The engine installation looks as though it would create more drag than thrust.
Re: the comment about the aircraft with the arrow on the side, I have to agree that it looks as though it was built upside down. I think the reason they painted the arrow on it was so that the public knew which end was the front.

Member for

17 years 8 months

Posts: 2,766

Apart from the pod mounted engine I can see no similarity between the two aeroplanes at all. I am also of the opinion that it is not by any of the major manufacturers.

John

Member for

13 years 11 months

Posts: 18

Do you think maybe a home-build then John?. That was my first thought and where I would put my money to be honest. But that cockpit shape rings bells somewhere with another post war type but I can't put my finger on it. Also the thought occurs, is it definitely a french built aircraft? could it have been imported?

Regards.

Member for

18 years 2 months

Posts: 2,245

But that cockpit shape rings bells somewhere with another post war type but I can't put my finger on it.

Seabee?

Member for

13 years 11 months

Posts: 18

That's the one. Thanks for that. :D

Regards.