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Unknown French type captured by the Germans?

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  • Peter D Evans
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jun 2003
    • 620

    Unknown French type captured by the Germans?

    This one has got us stumped over on the LEMB, so can anybody here identify the French type pictured below?



    The photo is reproduced from the Avions Hors Serie Nr 24 'La Debacle de Mai-Juin 1940 - ce que trouverent les Allemands en traversant la France' and is captioned as being captured by the Germans at Toussus le Nobel along with other aircraft in various states of condition. Any pointers or suggestions very much appreciated.

    Cheers
    Peter D Evans
    LEMB Administrator
  • John Aeroclub
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jul 2006
    • 2753

    #2
    Well it's got me stumped too. I think the a/c behind is a Potez 58.

    John

    Comment

    • wieesso
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Aug 2006
      • 1854

      #3
      Originally posted by Peter D Evans View Post
      This one has got us stumped over on the LEMB, so can anybody here identify the French type pictured below?
      Any pointers or suggestions very much appreciated.
      Cheers
      Peter D Evans
      LEMB Administrator
      Hi Peter,
      I've posted the photo in a French forum - we'll have to wait...
      Rgds
      Martin

      Comment

      • avion ancien
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Aug 2007
        • 5169

        #4
        The following is the response, so far, to the appearance on the French forum:

        "ce n'est pas la premire fois que je vois un appel au peuple sur cet appareil, mais je n'ai jamais vu de rponse.
        Il a un air de famille avec l'amphibie Caudron PV-200 conu par Pierre de Viscaya et prsent au salon de 1932. La motorisation haute et l'aile suprieure (la seule pour le PV-200) semblent identiques. Je n'ai pas trouv jusqu' prsent d'informations trs labores sur les oeuvres de cet ingnieur".

        Summarised, it says that it's not the first time that the identity of this aeroplane has been sought but it resembles the Caudron PV-200 amphibian designed by Pierre de Viscaya and exhibited in 1932.

        Comment

        • wieesso
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Aug 2006
          • 1854

          #5
          You're the first ;-)
          Just got the same answer from Michel Barriere

          Comment

          • avion ancien
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2007
            • 5169

            #6
            Sorry, I should have said, Martin - that is Michel Barrire's response to your post!

            Comment

            • Peter D Evans
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jun 2003
              • 620

              #7
              Many thanks indeed chaps, very much appreciated!

              Cheers
              Peter D Evans
              LEMB Administrator

              Comment

              • RPSmith
                ex Midland A.M. member
                • Mar 2005
                • 2902

                #8
                Looking at the layout of the aircraft - I would put "amphibian" very low down on the list of possibles.

                Surely it couldn't take-off/land with the lower wing on/in the water?

                Roger Smith.
                A Blenheim, Beaufighter and Beaufort - together in one Museum. Who'd have thought that possible in 1967?

                Comment

                • avion ancien
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Aug 2007
                  • 5169

                  #9
                  I should have been a little more precise in my translation. "Air de famille" translates a "family likeness" so the suggestion is not that it is an amphibian but that it appears to have similarities to the Caudron PV-200 amphibian.

                  There is another post on the subject on the French forum but as Martin initiated that, I'll not steal his thunder for a second time!

                  Comment

                  • Peter D Evans
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jun 2003
                    • 620

                    #10
                    Here is a photo of a Caudron P.V.200 reproduced from Flight Magazine Nov 24 1932



                    There certainly is a resemblance and there is no reason to think that a land-based version of the amphibian could have been developed - but then again, there are more differences than matches.

                    Cheers
                    Peter D Evans
                    LEMB Administrator

                    Comment

                    • Rlangham
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • May 2005
                      • 2818

                      #11
                      Looking at the aircraft above and to the right, with four fuselage windows and the arrow along the fuselage - did they assemble it upside-down?!
                      Up, down, flying around, looping the loop and defying the ground

                      http://electric-edwardians.blogspot.com

                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/roblangham

                      Comment

                      • F.U.B.A.R.ed
                        Rank 2 Registered User
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 18

                        #12
                        To be honest it has me stumped. too many differences between those two types though. I thought could it be a home-built type but it appears to have the tricolor of the French Air Force on the rudder and the fin/rudder shape (sometimes a give away to manufacturer) could be Dewotine or M/S ???

                        Over to those who know more than I.

                        Regards
                        Back from beyond the brink of insanity. :diablo:

                        Comment

                        • wieesso
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 1854

                          #13
                          Originally posted by avion ancien View Post
                          I should have been a little more precise in my translation. "Air de famille" translates a "family likeness" so the suggestion is not that it is an amphibian but that it appears to have similarities to the Caudron PV-200 amphibian.

                          There is another post on the subject on the French forum but as Martin initiated that, I'll not steal his thunder for a second time!
                          Please, Michael, do it - your translation will be more precise than mine ;-)
                          Martin

                          Comment

                          • avion ancien
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Aug 2007
                            • 5169

                            #14
                            Ce soir, j'espre. Il y a plusieurs rponses maintenant!

                            Comment

                            • wieesso
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 1854

                              #15
                              Originally posted by avion ancien View Post
                              Ce soir, j'espre. Il y a plusieurs rponses maintenant!
                              Oui, je l'ai not dj!

                              Comment

                              • REDBIRD
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Dec 2007
                                • 52

                                #16
                                My personal 1 euro cents worth

                                I think that it looks like a glider, it had the lower wing, struts and engine retro fitted.

                                Probably wrong, as often before.

                                And obviously the undercarriage fitted
                                Last edited by REDBIRD; 7th April 2010, 19:12. Reason: To add comment about undercarriage

                                Comment

                                • mike currill
                                  Big pistons rule
                                  • Jul 2003
                                  • 8791

                                  #17
                                  The engine installation looks as though it would create more drag than thrust.
                                  Re: the comment about the aircraft with the arrow on the side, I have to agree that it looks as though it was built upside down. I think the reason they painted the arrow on it was so that the public knew which end was the front.
                                  The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its original size.

                                  Comment

                                  • John Aeroclub
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jul 2006
                                    • 2753

                                    #18
                                    Apart from the pod mounted engine I can see no similarity between the two aeroplanes at all. I am also of the opinion that it is not by any of the major manufacturers.

                                    John

                                    Comment

                                    • F.U.B.A.R.ed
                                      Rank 2 Registered User
                                      • Apr 2010
                                      • 18

                                      #19
                                      Do you think maybe a home-build then John?. That was my first thought and where I would put my money to be honest. But that cockpit shape rings bells somewhere with another post war type but I can't put my finger on it. Also the thought occurs, is it definitely a french built aircraft? could it have been imported?

                                      Regards.
                                      Back from beyond the brink of insanity. :diablo:

                                      Comment

                                      • Fouga23
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2006
                                        • 2256

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by F.U.B.A.R.ed View Post
                                        But that cockpit shape rings bells somewhere with another post war type but I can't put my finger on it.
                                        Seabee?
                                        Magister Aviation
                                        It's all in my book

                                        Comment

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