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Wind energy...the way of the future or a menace ?

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  • topspeed
    Get on uppah !
    • Jan 2009
    • 2660

    Wind energy...the way of the future or a menace ?

    I am wondering...since here we see that 70% efficiency can be reached...why we still cling on to the propellers as a wind energy systems ?Click image for larger version  Name:	vertical-axis-wind-turbine.jpg Views:	0 Size:	85.2 KB ID:	3862358
    If it looks good, it will fly good !
    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/
  • topspeed
    Get on uppah !
    • Jan 2009
    • 2660

    #2
    1978 McDonnell Aircraft reached 51% efficiency with another H-darreius...called Giromill.
    Attached Files
    If it looks good, it will fly good !
    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

    Comment

    • topspeed
      Get on uppah !
      • Jan 2009
      • 2660

      #3
      I just want to inform you if interested that I have solved the problem of the actuators and also tested a two bladed prototype of this 50%+ efficient type machine.


      Click image for larger version

Name:	giro-mcair_conc2.jpg
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ID:	3862613
      If it looks good, it will fly good !
      -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


      http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

      Comment

      • topspeed
        Get on uppah !
        • Jan 2009
        • 2660

        #4
        Roman Bhler also makes these...with more blades.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InfeKm_aNU4
        If it looks good, it will fly good !
        -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


        http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

        Comment

        • topspeed
          Get on uppah !
          • Jan 2009
          • 2660

          #5
          Best run at 60% efficiency. 50% better than the HAWT propellers.
          Attached Files
          If it looks good, it will fly good !
          -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


          http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

          Comment

          • 1batfastard
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2013
            • 3428

            #6
            Hi All,
            Is there not a fundamental flaw with all these wind turbines at the moment ? In that all the energy they make cannot be stored and that is why you see some turbines for the most standing still, that being the case should the next move be better and bigger storage capacity designs ?

            Personally I think they are a blot on the landscape especially when not doing the job they are meant to be doing.

            Geoff.

            Comment

            • topspeed
              Get on uppah !
              • Jan 2009
              • 2660

              #7
              Right Geoff....

              I think it is time to move on to something more effective.
              Attached Files
              If it looks good, it will fly good !
              -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


              http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

              Comment

              • topspeed
                Get on uppah !
                • Jan 2009
                • 2660

                #8
                Is the 61% efficient ANEW M-1 it ? This beats the propellors by 50% in efficiency.
                Attached Files
                If it looks good, it will fly good !
                -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                Comment

                • topspeed
                  Get on uppah !
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 2660

                  #9
                  There is energy in wind ( dynamic soaring explained ):


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv7-YM4wno8

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoaWlKC3wIM
                  If it looks good, it will fly good !
                  -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                  http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                  Comment

                  • hampden98
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Sep 2009
                    • 2550

                    #10
                    The only way humanity will progress is to use Nuclear followed by a complete farming of the energy from the sun.
                    So Nuclear is the only way until we can build a Dyson Sphere.
                    You may think this is extreme but it has already been demonstrated that you cannot build sufficient wind turbines to harness all our power needs, nor wave power.
                    There is also the law of diminishing returns. Wind turbine reliability and maintenance v cost v power. In other words when you have so many turbines the cost of maintenance will become prohibitive.
                    There is also the unsightly nature of them.
                    With the development of facilities that can recycle the waste from Nuclear power stations now coming online and the demonstrated reliability of new power stations I see that as the way forward.
                    Especially if we are serious about electric powered vehicles.

                    Comment

                    • topspeed
                      Get on uppah !
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 2660

                      #11
                      Originally posted by hampden98 View Post
                      The only way humanity will progress is to use Nuclear followed by a complete farming of the energy from the sun.
                      So Nuclear is the only way until we can build a Dyson Sphere.
                      You may think this is extreme but it has already been demonstrated that you cannot build sufficient wind turbines to harness all our power needs, nor wave power.
                      There is also the law of diminishing returns. Wind turbine reliability and maintenance v cost v power. In other words when you have so many turbines the cost of maintenance will become prohibitive.
                      There is also the unsightly nature of them.
                      With the development of facilities that can recycle the waste from Nuclear power stations now coming online and the demonstrated reliability of new power stations I see that as the way forward.
                      Especially if we are serious about electric powered vehicles.
                      I partially agree.

                      H-Darreus/Giromill type wind turbines could be made long lasting and more efficient by many ways.

                      First electric generating wind turbine was made in Scotland in 1887 by James Blyth.

                      BTW: variable pith HAWT turned 100 years this year....invented by Vinding bros in Denmark.

                      Below also Aerogenerator-X displayed.
                      Attached Files
                      If it looks good, it will fly good !
                      -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                      http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                      Comment

                      • Lingo Dog
                        Rank 3 Registered User
                        • Oct 2018
                        • 114

                        #12
                        And may the nuclear source be Thorium.

                        Comment

                        • topspeed
                          Get on uppah !
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 2660

                          #13
                          Wind could be a good source too..if someone wanted to take full advantage of it !
                          Attached Files
                          If it looks good, it will fly good !
                          -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                          http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                          Comment

                          • topspeed
                            Get on uppah !
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 2660

                            #14
                            I just want to inform all you that I was able clock the TSR of 10.1 with my small test turbine in 10 m/s wind. Wings sustained over 100 Gs....and seemed to have no problem doing so.
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by topspeed; 13th June 2019, 06:03.
                            If it looks good, it will fly good !
                            -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                            http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                            Comment

                            • topspeed
                              Get on uppah !
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 2660

                              #15
                              I actually checked again the g-force.

                              I have no idea why the wings didn't explode.
                              Attached Files
                              If it looks good, it will fly good !
                              -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                              http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                              Comment

                              • topspeed
                                Get on uppah !
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 2660

                                #16
                                60% more efficient wind turbines as the currect HAWT propellers could be made according to this.

                                https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...3/2/022056/pdf
                                If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                Comment

                                • J Boyle
                                  With malice towards none
                                  • Oct 2004
                                  • 9793

                                  #17
                                  A menace?
                                  Hardly but...

                                  Well, birds, including some protected raptors, have been known to get chopped up in the blades.

                                  Also, a TV station reported that its broadcast signal was disrupted after a wind farm was built nearby.
                                  They received some sort of settlement for upgrades and changes.
                                  I don't know the science involved (perhaps the construction of the blades?), but it happened.

                                  Aldo, the wealthy, liberal eco-friendly area of Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts, successfully lobbied against an offshore wind farm in the basis of esthetics...so the old adage "not in my backyard" is alive even for progressive ideas.

                                  I'm not against them, but I have seen some nice areas marred by them, so have a bit of a concern that they are being promoted (or pushed) by people who want the energy but don't want to pay the price...in the terms of degraded esthetics.
                                  Last edited by J Boyle; 26th July 2019, 02:18.
                                  There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                                  Comment

                                  • topspeed
                                    Get on uppah !
                                    • Jan 2009
                                    • 2660

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by J Boyle View Post
                                    A menace?
                                    Hardly but...

                                    Well, birds, including some protected raptors, have been known to get chopped up in the blades.

                                    Also, a TV station reported that its broadcast signal was disrupted after a wind farm was built nearby.
                                    They received some sort of settlement for upgrades and changes.
                                    I don't know the science involved (perhaps the construction of the blades?), but it happened.

                                    Aldo, the wealthy, liberal eco-friendly area of Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts, successfully lobbied against an offshore wind farm in the basis of esthetics...so the old adage "not in my backyard" is alive even for progressive ideas.

                                    I'm not against them, but I have seen some nice areas marred by them, so have a bit of a concern that they are being promoted (or pushed) by people who want the energy but don't want to pay the price...in the terms of degraded esthetics.
                                    I am wonking on my third prototype of variable pitch H-Darreius..it ought to beat the HAWT props with a clear margin in efficiency...and simplicity..is also lower and quiet. It rews really high..TSR 3 at a low wind speed.
                                    Attached Files
                                    If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment

                                    • Shorty01
                                      Short Member
                                      • Jul 2003
                                      • 744

                                      #19
                                      Good work Topspeed. I've been meaning to have a go at a VAWT myself for many years. From my perspective the VAWT is the way to go as I live in an urbanish environment where I wouldn't be allowed to install a HAWT at a decent enough height to generate meaningful electricity.

                                      WRT the aesthetics of wind farms, I lived in Germany for a fair few years and there they seem to have become an accepted part to the landscape. It is recognised that they are needed and are a more palatable solution than nuclear power.
                                      It's the one you don't see that gets you (usually)...

                                      Comment

                                      • topspeed
                                        Get on uppah !
                                        • Jan 2009
                                        • 2660

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Shorty01 View Post
                                        Good work Topspeed. I've been meaning to have a go at a VAWT myself for many years. From my perspective the VAWT is the way to go as I live in an urbanish environment where I wouldn't be allowed to install a HAWT at a decent enough height to generate meaningful electricity.

                                        WRT the aesthetics of wind farms, I lived in Germany for a fair few years and there they seem to have become an accepted part to the landscape. It is recognised that they are needed and are a more palatable solution than nuclear power.

                                        Yes I am working on my third prototype.
                                        Attached Files
                                        If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                        -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                        http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                        Comment

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