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  • Meddle
    replied
    Originally posted by J Boyle View Post
    The privately run prisons are contracted by the states, they offer a service for less than the state could do it (largely because of the massive labour/pension overheads state organizations have).
    Perhaps it wouldn't be such an expensive business if the US didn't incarcerate such high numbers of its inhabitants? Couldn't you save a few bob (err... nickels?) here and there by actually rehabilitating prisons rather than creating a social underclass of unemployables? I just finished reading Are Prisons Obsolete? by Angela Y. Davis. You are free to disagree with most of the sentiments in the book (really a glorified essay) if you wish, but she does make a fairly convincing argument for the notion that there is a vested interest in the US judicial system locking up as many folk as possible, in part due to lobbying from police and prison guard unions and in part due to the for-profit nature of a lot of your prisons. The US has been busily building prisons at a far higher rate than any other developed country, and I don't think you have to be too cynical to imagine that a country that builds numerous prisons then has to actively find numerous criminals to put in them.

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  • J Boyle
    replied
    Originally posted by Rii View Post
    ... the freedom to be locked up in corporate, for-profit prisons.
    You do realize the running of the prisons has NOTHING to do whether or not someone is uin one?
    The privately run prisons are contracted by the states, they offer a service for less than the state could do it (largely because of the massive labour/pension overheads state organizations have).

    Nice try to bolster your dark view of America by inserting an irrelevant point.
    Mr Putin would be proud that you've remembered your talking points.

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  • MrBlueSky
    replied
    Hope this doesn't 'Offend ' anyone.

    Leave a comment:


  • snafu
    replied
    Reports first said fifty injured, now they were injured by the CD gas the police used...

    An armed and masked man has been shot dead by German special police officers after storming a cinema complex in Viernheim, in the Hesse region.

    The gunman had taken several hostages, all of whom escaped uninjured. A number of people inside the cinema were lightly injured when police deployed CS gas, reports said.

    Police said they had no indication of the motives of the man who entered the Kinopolis complex at about 3pm local time, shortly after the start of the first screenings of the day.

    The cinema had been showing The Jungle Book, Alice in Wonderland and the comedy Central Intelligence. According to several reports in German media, the man was wearing a balaclava and carrying combat boots and a “long weapon”, with a munition belt slung over his shoulder.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...olis-viernheim
    Interesting points:

    Germany has one of the highest weapons-per-head rates in the world, but one of the lowest gun homicide rates in Europe: 0.05 per 1,000 people, compared with 3.34 in the US.

    Incidents of gun crime, including the use of weapons to threaten people, have declined by almost a quarter since 2010, a trend that many experts put down to gun law changes after a string of high-profile shootings, including the killing of 15 people at a school in Winnenden near Stuttgart in March 2009.

    Germany is the only country in the world where anyone under the age of 25 who applies for their first firearms licence must undergo a psychiatric evaluation with a trained counsellor, including personality and anger management tests.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...olis-viernheim
    See that, RpR, they had massacres but changed laws and shootings have dropped by nearly 25%! If only you liked people enough to care.

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  • tankdriver67
    replied
    Was there a shooting in a German theater today? That cant be right.

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  • Rii
    replied
    Originally posted by RpR View Post
    Magnifying your ignorance with obtuse rhetoric, BRILLIANT!
    You boys keep making the same ignorant statements I am done with this, but if making those statements floats your boats, build a flotilla.
    Which statement of fact do you object to, exactly? Trekbuster has already handled the prison thing.

    The murder rate in the United States is four times that of Australia.

    US police killed 1145 people in 2015, Australian police kill an average of 4 people each year, and Australian police kill more people than do English police and those of most European nations. Of course the US population is somewhat larger than Australia's: when adjusted for population we find that US police kill 21 people for every person killed by an Australian police officer. Nope, not a cultural issue there at all.

    That's the "freedom" that the rest of the civilised world sees when it looks as your country: the freedom to kill or be killed, the freedom to be locked up in corporate, for-profit prisons.
    Last edited by Rii; 22nd June 2016, 16:09.

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  • trekbuster
    replied
    Well now Pinko, that is really quite a statement.
    As an example , you are much more likely to be black in a US prison as a percentage of the population, and many black people supported Obama, but it would be wrong to say because they are black and may support Obama that that is the reason they are in prison

    53% of the people who voted in the 2008 election voted for Obama, if the prison population reflected this percentage then you could say that it is likely that a small majority of the prison population would have voted for him if they had a vote, but beyond that??


    Oh, I have just realised. Silly me. It was intended as a joke. Ha Ha Ha
    Last edited by trekbuster; 22nd June 2016, 10:05.

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  • John Green
    replied
    Is it because most of them are, perhaps, Obama supporters ? Just a thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • trekbuster
    replied
    Originally posted by RpR View Post
    Magnifying your ignorance with obtuse rhetoric, BRILLIANT!
    You boys keep making the same ignorant statements I am done with this, but if making those statements floats your boats, build a flotilla.
    Whilst I can agree that some of the rhetoric is a bit fanciful, I am afraid the facts speak for themselves over the specific point about prison population.

    The one that stands out is that the US has 4.4% of the world's population, and 22% of the world's prison population. It peaked in 2009 but is still very very high compared to most of the world.

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  • RpR
    replied
    Originally posted by Rii View Post
    Ah yes, the United States, where more folks are imprisoned than ever were in Stalin's gulags. The most extensive prison-industrial complex the world has ever known, where citizens slaughter each other on a daily basis when the police aren't gunning them down instead -- Land of the Free indeed.
    Magnifying your ignorance with obtuse rhetoric, BRILLIANT!
    You boys keep making the same ignorant statements I am done with this, but if making those statements floats your boats, build a flotilla.
    Last edited by RpR; 22nd June 2016, 02:56.

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  • snafu
    replied
    Hush, he doesn't care about the common prole - unless they are gun owners under threat of having their gun taken away...;o)

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  • Rii
    replied
    Originally posted by RpR View Post
    That is what you and people in other countries where government rules their lives simply are incapable of understanding as they have never had the freedom we had and still have to a lessor degree.
    Ah yes, the United States, where more folks are imprisoned than ever were in Stalin's gulags. The most extensive prison-industrial complex the world has ever known, where citizens slaughter each other on a daily basis when the police aren't gunning them down instead -- Land of the Free indeed.

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  • snafu
    replied
    Ho, hum...yes, because the way guns are being regulated at the moment is working very well, isn't it.[/sarcasm]

    So it looks like we shall just have to wait for more innocents to get gunned down by some crazy with a gripe. Not that you care, of course.

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  • RpR
    replied
    Originally posted by snafu View Post
    Obviously there has to be politics in this for you, people don't matter. Have you thought that maybe the government should control this matter,
    NO.

    That is what you and people in other countries where government rules their lives simply are incapable of understanding as they have never had the freedom we had and still have to a lessor degree.

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  • snafu
    replied
    Originally posted by RpR View Post
    Are you saying it would be different under a different government? -- The Democrats want the government to own your life, so yes.
    Obviously there has to be politics in this for you, people don't matter. Have you thought that maybe the government should control this matter, since obviously the regulations in place at the moment are obviously unfit for purpose.

    Originally posted by RpR View Post
    That the FBI, having found no reason to continue investigating, were wrong to close their investigation and should have devoted more time, effort, officers and money to this and every other similar case, just to be sure? That the FBI, having to spend extra time effort, officers and money carrying on investigating cases where they found no evidence yet still are required investigating until they find something to justify their investigations, miss something because they had nobody available to take on further investigations and so require more officers and more money just to carry on their normal duties whilst still investigating all those investigations that had originally been dropped since no evidence had been found. Is that what you are saying? -- NO.
    I am glad that at this point one is ALWAYS IS SUPPOSED TO BE, and often still is, innocent till proven guilty . No guilt no reason for investigation.
    Hillary is saying that what the FBI did was wrong, that the government should be able to put persons on lists, and act on those lists as they see fit.
    ??? And that is different to what Wiggy Trump said in what way?

    Originally posted by RpR View Post
    If the world turns upside down and Forest Trump gets the big job I can see Gitmo becoming rather crowded.
    Still, you won't be worried since you will still have your guns - have to pay a lot more tax to finance the larger FBI and the upgraded security services because the world has suddenly become a whole lot more dangerous, but at least you'd have your gun to cuddle...


    Originally posted by RpR View Post
    See above about Hillary, which is fact and makes your statement about Trump obtuse.
    No, no statement about Trumpy is ever obtuse, not after some of the gibberish he has uttered.

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  • RpR
    replied
    Originally posted by snafu View Post
    Are you saying it would be different under a different government? -- The Democrats want the government to own your life, so yes.


    That the FBI, having found no reason to continue investigating, were wrong to close their investigation and should have devoted more time, effort, officers and money to this and every other similar case, just to be sure? That the FBI, having to spend extra time effort, officers and money carrying on investigating cases where they found no evidence yet still are required investigating until they find something to justify their investigations, miss something because they had nobody available to take on further investigations and so require more officers and more money just to carry on their normal duties whilst still investigating all those investigations that had originally been dropped since no evidence had been found. Is that what you are saying? -- NO.
    I am glad that at this point one is ALWAYS IS SUPPOSED TO BE, and often still is, innocent till proven guilty . No guilt no reason for investigation.
    Hillary is saying that what the FBI did was wrong, that the government should be able to put persons on lists, and act on those lists as they see fit.


    If the world turns upside down and Forest Trump gets the big job I can see Gitmo becoming rather crowded.
    Still, you won't be worried since you will still have your guns - have to pay a lot more tax to finance the larger FBI and the upgraded security services because the world has suddenly become a whole lot more dangerous, but at least you'd have your gun to cuddle...
    See above about Hillary, which is fact and makes your statement about Trump obtuse.

    Leave a comment:


  • snafu
    replied
    Originally posted by RpR View Post

    Wed note that in the Orlando case, however, the shooter, Omar Mateen, bought his guns after he was no longer on a terrorist watch list. FBI Director James B. Comey has said that Mateen was on the FBIs Terrorist Watchlist in 2013 and 2014 when the FBI was investigating him, first due to co-workers raising concerns about Mateens incendiary language about terrorism and then due to him having casually known a suicide bomber who attended the same mosque in Florida. The FBI didnt find evidence to arrest Mateen, Comey told reporters, and the investigations were closed, which removes suspects from the watch list, the New York Times reported.


    Yep just what we need another worthless law that given the government more power.
    Are you saying it would be different under a different government? That the FBI, having found no reason to continue investigating, were wrong to close their investigation and should have devoted more time, effort, officers and money to this and every other similar case, just to be sure? That the FBI, having to spend extra time effort, officers and money carrying on investigating cases where they found no evidence yet still are required investigating until they find something to justify their investigations, miss something because they had nobody available to take on further investigations and so require more officers and more money just to carry on their normal duties whilst still investigating all those investigations that had originally been dropped since no evidence had been found. Is that what you are saying?
    If the world turns upside down and Forest Trump gets the big job I can see Gitmo becoming rather crowded.
    Still, you won't be worried since you will still have your guns - have to pay a lot more tax to finance the larger FBI and the upgraded security services because the world has suddenly become a whole lot more dangerous, but at least you'd have your gun to cuddle...

    Leave a comment:


  • RpR
    replied
    Originally posted by MrBlueSky View Post
    Ah yes quoting Clinton for how good this is exposes extreme ignorance of the no fly list in the U.S.
    Now the ACLU often is the DNCs best friend but on this liberty given us by our constitution rules.

    No Fly List Grows, Along With Injustice For Those Wrongly Stuck On It


    https://www.aclu.org/blog/no-fly-lis...ongly-stuck-it


    We’d note that in the Orlando case, however, the shooter, Omar Mateen, bought his guns after he was no longer on a terrorist watch list. FBI Director James B. Comey has said that Mateen was on the FBI’s Terrorist Watchlist in 2013 and 2014 when the FBI was investigating him, first due to co-workers raising concerns about Mateen’s incendiary language about terrorism and then due to him having “casually” known a suicide bomber who attended the same mosque in Florida. The FBI didn’t find evidence to arrest Mateen, Comey told reporters, and the investigations were closed, which removes suspects from the watch list, the New York Times reported.


    Yep just what we need another worthless law that given the government more power.

    Leave a comment:


  • snafu
    replied
    Back on topic:

    People in Orlando have dressed as guardian angels to protect the funeral of one of the Orlando shooting victims from homophobic protesters.
    A small number of Westboro Baptist Church followers, attended Saturday's service for Christopher Leinonen.
    The anti-gay organisation only has about 40 members but is well known for its hate speeches and funeral protests.
    The handful of demonstrators was blocked from view by around 200 counter-protesters.
    "I think our presence here is just to show support for the families of the victims and we want to make sure that we're an ally," said one supporter, Suzanne Draper.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/articl...oro-protesters
    Haters are, ahem, gunna hate...

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  • John Green
    replied
    MrBlueSky

    Thank you. I realise my education is not what it should be. I thought that it could be some exotic vegetable.

    Leave a comment:

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