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  • Mycroft
    Senior Member

    Originally posted by trekbuster View Post
    This unfortunately shows a limited understanding of the rights of citizens from other countries who have legal residency and pay into our tax and NI systems. Bullying threats tend not to be a very effective bargaining chip if UK citizens live abroad and have similar benefits extended to them at present.
    One benefit of leaving the EU will be not having to abide by those rules and most pay next to nothing in tax and NI, especially in terms of the net figure. Only UK citizens have a right to free healthcare and education, for other citizens such things are the responsibility of their home countries. This is why the PM did not agree that there would be a guaranteed continuity of residency for those citizens, it is very much a bargaining chip. Bullying threat? Well the EU is the one trying to bully the UK into giving up its sovereignty, so it only fair that we reserve the right to respond in kind. The EU can't block trade with the UK and expect us to keep pampering their citizens, because it won't happen. We don't want this kind of outcome for one second, but we're hard negotiators and no card is off the table if we're pushed to it.

    Comment

    • RaketaObezyana
      Rank 1 Registered User

      Jza

      A welcome reminder that there are things even more absurd than 17 million people voting to make their little island a history laden afterthought.

      The arrogance of your sort is astounding. There is life on this planet we haven't even seen yet let alone catalogued, studied and attempted to slaughter.

      Go west from the Urals you'll see no human for days even weeks until you close on the Pacific coast. Huge areas of the North American continent the same. The Amazon the same. There are regions on this planet where, if you found yourself unprepared, you would be killed by a very cold and unconcerned nature and your body, like as not, would never be seen again.

      My strong hope is that those of you with these views gets just that chance to witness the reality of nature that you prioritise above human life. Then, hopefully, your last thoughts can be an understanding of how vital our dominion over nature is!.

      Comment

      • trekbuster
        Rank 5 Registered User

        'We're' Hard negotiators?

        Of whom do you speak. Liam Fox? David Davies? Yourself? Are you serious?

        Amateurs

        Comment

        • j_jza80
          Rank 5 Registered User

          Originally posted by RaketaObezyana View Post
          Jza


          The arrogance of your sort is astounding. There is life on this planet we haven't even seen yet let alone catalogued, studied and attempted to slaughter.

          Go west from the Urals you'll see no human for days even weeks until you close on the Pacific coast. Huge areas of the North American continent the same. The Amazon the same. There are regions on this planet where, if you found yourself unprepared, you would be killed by a very cold and unconcerned nature and your body, like as not, would never be seen again.
          Where abouts IN ENGLAND is that, exactly? I don't remember us having a referendum on the Urals membership of the European Union.

          Comment

          • RaketaObezyana
            Rank 1 Registered User

            "As far as I'm concerned, you neolibs are worse than ISIS. Certainly much worse for the planet."

            You were talking about the planet an hour ago?.

            Comment

            • Bruce
              Independent analyst

              I'm not entirely sure what a Neoliberal is. Its a term bandied around a lot of late, but gets used to describe anyone right of Jeremy Corbyn, and Left of Nigel Farage.

              Raketa, you would do well not to underestimate a nation that has changed the world many times over in the past. You will find our hand just about everywhere you look - for good or ill. Whilst not a supporter of the Leave campaign, I have, as a supporter of democracy, to bide by the result of the referendum. We don't yet know what it will mean, but I suspect it wont be exactly what anyone thinks they voted for.

              Comment

              • Mycroft
                Senior Member

                Originally posted by trekbuster View Post
                'We're' Hard negotiators?

                Of whom do you speak. Liam Fox? David Davies? Yourself? Are you serious?

                Amateurs
                Theresa May specifically didn't guarantee a continued stay for EU migrants if the negotiations are seen to fail, unless they meet specific criteria that are beneficial to us.

                Comment

                • RaketaObezyana
                  Rank 1 Registered User

                  Originally posted by Bruce View Post
                  Raketa, you would do well not to underestimate a nation that has changed the world many times over in the past. You will find our hand just about everywhere you look - for good or ill. Whilst not a supporter of the Leave campaign, I have, as a supporter of democracy, to bide by the result of the referendum. We don't yet know what it will mean, but I suspect it wont be exactly what anyone thinks they voted for.
                  You changed the world when you had the courage to do so. If you still had that courage, Bruce, if you were still the people that led the world in engineering, innovation and diplomacy you would have remained in the EU and provided the leadership and vision to steer it back on track. You would not have tamely shrugged your shoulders and let fools give you the excuse to walk away from the tough job. The price of being a great nation is to do great things. In the past you did those things but now you pat yourself on the back for leaving your friends hanging in the wind. Friends that once looked up to you for the difference you had made in the world.

                  I hope you find your way back to the kind of people you were.

                  Comment

                  • j_jza80
                    Rank 5 Registered User

                    Originally posted by Bruce View Post
                    I'm not entirely sure what a Neoliberal is. Its a term bandied around a lot of late, but gets used to describe anyone right of Jeremy Corbyn, and Left of Nigel Farage.
                    Basically someone who promotes a race to the bottom with the motivation of lining their own pockets. Living standards, society, the environment etc be damned. They often pretend to be socialist, but would privatise the NHS in a heartbeat if it made them 1 a month better off.

                    Comment

                    • John Green
                      Rank 5 Registered User

                      Raketa

                      We, the British, do not want to be shackled to a corpse; that if not actually dead, is in an advanced stage of living decomposition.

                      The EU serves no one but its own elite. Occasionally, in the past, the curtain of EU duplicity has been lifted. We were, in the early days of the EU, via the words of one of the founding fathers; Jean Monett, permitted a glimpse of the perverted and morally inverted thinking that was to underpin the construction of the EU.

                      Jean Monett's words, astounding and chilling in their sheer duplicity have been reinforced many times over by the actions of the EU over the last fifty or so years. I do not know which country you call home. But, I would guess that it is a country that has perhaps, like so many others, at some time or another, experienced the hand of the oppressor. If such is the case, then with your knowledge of your countries history you will be familiar with the tyranny of control by another power.

                      As a supporter and 'cheer leader' for the British Empire, I'm aware that our acquisition of territory was not always for the best reasons nor was conducted in a particularly enlightened and beneficial way. Many of those who voted OUT have now come to a proper understanding of what it means to be controlled by a master puppeteer, in this case the EU and losing their independence and control over their destiny.

                      Many of us see this all too clearly and are ready to pay any price to ensure that full sovereignty returns to the British Parliament and its people. We will no longer be slaves to the EU.

                      Comment

                      • bazv
                        olde rigger

                        Originally posted by RaketaObezyana View Post
                        You changed the world when you had the courage to do so. If you still had that courage, Bruce, if you were still the people that led the world in engineering, innovation and diplomacy you would have remained in the EU and provided the leadership and vision to steer it back on track. You would not have tamely shrugged your shoulders and let fools give you the excuse to walk away from the tough job. The price of being a great nation is to do great things. In the past you did those things but now you pat yourself on the back for leaving your friends hanging in the wind. Friends that once looked up to you for the difference you had made in the world.

                        I hope you find your way back to the kind of people you were.
                        Can you send me some of the stuff you are smoking Racket Minkey

                        The EU do not listen to anybody - so a small country like Britain cannot change it from its juggernaut course up its own fundamental orifice.

                        The EU only have themselves to blame,many people in europe hate the direction the EU has gone but will never get a vote on staying in,do not mistake our dislike of the EU as being a dislike of europeans or europe !

                        Comment

                        • RaketaObezyana
                          Rank 1 Registered User

                          removing as unfair. enough is said
                          Last edited by RaketaObezyana; 30th October 2016, 18:38.

                          Comment

                          • Agent K
                            Rank 5 Registered User

                            Originally posted by Mycroft View Post
                            That hasn't been confirmed, it remains a rumour. The fall in the is also good not bad. The economy is doing better, despite Brexit.
                            How can you possibly say that, my company, for example, a blue chip and investment stock and due to stock market changes has moved from a worth of 13.5 Billion before to 8.5 Billion post vote. That affects it's ability to borrow to expand that has an impact throughout the sector. It affects investments and ability to pay dividends, hence all our investments and pensions suffer. It has also had to write off 170 Million from this years profits due to currency downturn. In no way can this be seen as good not bad, and my company is one of many. How is the economy doing better?, what actual evidence and examples do you have to back up your statement? I'm looking and can't see any.

                            Comment

                            • John Green
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              Your company will recover. I've been a small time investor/gambler in financial markets around the world for many years. A dip in your companies value offers an opportunity to an investor/gambler somewhere in the world. That is the nature of investing. It is purely and simply; gambling. Someone's loss is someone's gain.

                              The 'blips' presently experienced; and they are just that; blips, offer an opportunity for the experienced investor/gambler provided they are canny enough, lucky enough, or knowledgeable enough to forecast the duration of the 'blip'.

                              Mycroft is correct in his/her reading of the British economy post Brexit. And it is post Brexit despite Bruce's opinion.

                              Comment

                              • Mycroft
                                Senior Member

                                Originally posted by Agent K View Post
                                How can you possibly say that, my company, for example, a blue chip and investment stock and due to stock market changes has moved from a worth of 13.5 Billion before to 8.5 Billion post vote. That affects it's ability to borrow to expand that has an impact throughout the sector. It affects investments and ability to pay dividends, hence all our investments and pensions suffer. It has also had to write off 170 Million from this years profits due to currency downturn. In no way can this be seen as good not bad, and my company is one of many. How is the economy doing better?, what actual evidence and examples do you have to back up your statement? I'm looking and can't see any.
                                I can quite easily say it because overall the FTSE has sky-rocketed, so on average the affect is beneficial.

                                FTSE 100 soars as pound slides

                                Comment

                                • Bruce
                                  Independent analyst

                                  You are comparing apples and oranges there.

                                  My own investments have done very well, but there is no certainty that they will continue to do so. Who is buying our stocks on the cheap? Think about it.

                                  Comment

                                  • John Green
                                    Rank 5 Registered User

                                    Bruce,

                                    It really doesn't matter a great deal. Confidence, that all important confidence in GB remains high.

                                    Comment

                                    • Agent K
                                      Rank 5 Registered User

                                      As a country we're a net importer, so a decrease in the value of the pound will ultimately have an adverse affect on all of us and will push up inflation. As for the stock markets being higher, that is a reflection of the weak and thus giving an increased paper value to exporters that feature in the FTSE. It doesn't mean we're more productive, or suddenly sales have improved.

                                      Also the FTSE value reflects share price, and a weighting looking at the value of a company, but it masks performance and it's too simple to look at pure FTSE 100 or even 250 and is far from a perfect measure. The devil is in the detail and individual company performance look at the companies who's shares have suffered, that's where my concern is, winners are high value export luxury items (Burberry etc.), Mining (gold and silver prices rise in uncertainty) whereas the losers are Banking, Construction, Aerospace - our countries key and larger industries. And if those shares are down, to me it suggests concerns in building, finance and aviation/transport which are key indicators of an economy.
                                      Last edited by Agent K; 31st October 2016, 15:53. Reason: typo

                                      Comment

                                      • Agent K
                                        Rank 5 Registered User

                                        Originally posted by John Green View Post
                                        Bruce,

                                        It really doesn't matter a great deal. Confidence, that all important confidence in GB remains high.
                                        Does it not? on what do you base this, it's not what I'm seeing, and I work in a global business with operating companies around the world and confidence is declining.

                                        Comment

                                        • John Green
                                          Rank 5 Registered User

                                          Perhaps you're a naturally wishful thinker ?

                                          Comment

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