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    #21
    No, indeed, Alan.

    "The stay in campaign does seem (up until now) to be based on fear." Running scared, I should imagine and with some justification...!! And I read that the Generals are back-pedalling rapidly...

    And I hope that Gove is given the lead part in the Leave campaign, to which he will bring clarity and conviction, and not Boris, who's bombast will add little to the debate.
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

    Comment


      #22
      The stay in campaign does seem (up until now) to be based on fear. A little light on facts though.
      The same is true for the leave campaign.

      And I hope that Gove is given the lead part in the Leave campaign
      So do I as he'll frighten the waverers into the stay camp. His comments yesterday show he has some lack of understanding of the law, which is surprising for a Justice secretary. Oh, I forgot he has a 2:1 in English so is not a lawyer after all. However it appears at the moment that none of the usual suspects want to head up a leave campaign, not even Nige as far as I can tell. Which is the official campaign- has it been decided yet?

      That statistic is about as reliable as their analysis of British State education.
      We can at least agree on that! GIGO
      Last edited by trekbuster; 25th February 2016, 15:36.

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by trekbuster View Post
        The same is true for the leave campaign.



        So do I as he'll frighten the waverers into the stay camp. His comments yesterday show he has some lack of understanding of the law.
        True but whereas the future in staying in should be crystal clear and full of facts, leaving is a step into virgin territory so facts are few and far to come by.

        At least Gove tells it as it is as opposed to the PR flummery we are getting from Cameron et al. And I wouldn't be so certain to dismiss his remarks on the legal aspects of what has been agreed. He will have taken good legal advice and I set rather more store by that than the blandishments from Mr Tusk.
        Charlie

        Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

        Comment


          #24
          And I wouldn't be so certain to dismiss his remarks on the legal aspects of what has been agreed
          OK, how about the Attorney General's opinion?
          http://www.standard.co.uk/news/polit...-a3187941.html

          Regarding the OECD, If one is sure their research is alway correct, then of course one would have to endorse their opinions on migration:
          http://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD%2...Numero%202.pdf

          Comment


            #25
            A government minister wheeled out by Cameron as the report says, has expressed his opinion. A political rebuttal and to be expected. The battle lines have been drawn so we'll see how it plays out. I'll stick by my original comment.
            Charlie

            Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

            Comment


              #26
              And I mine!

              Pob is a vote loser
              As I have stated before, the main problem that I see with Gove and that other bastion of truth and light that is IDS, is that they are willing, like Jeremy Hunt, to continue to ignore sound statistical and evidence based information that repudiates their position purely on ideological grounds. If that can do this with things that I have personal experience of and can recognise how the truth is ignored then how can I trust them on matters that I am less well versed in? Such as the Law.
              Last edited by trekbuster; 25th February 2016, 18:20.

              Comment


                #27
                As you emphatically said - you'll stick with your view. You and I are among the 35odd% who know how we are going to vote. It's the remaining two thirds who need convincing to your camp or mine! Let battle commence.....
                Charlie

                Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by trekbuster View Post
                  The same is true for the leave campaign.



                  So do I as he'll frighten the waverers into the stay camp. His comments yesterday show he has some lack of understanding of the law, which is surprising for a Justice secretary. Oh, I forgot he has a 2:1 in English so is not a lawyer after all. However it appears at the moment that none of the usual suspects want to head up a leave campaign, not even Nige as far as I can tell. Which is the official campaign- has it been decided yet?



                  We can at least agree on that! GIGO

                  Your grasp of sarcasm is rather excellent ! That's a bit more.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by trekbuster View Post
                    And I mine!

                    Pob is a vote loser
                    As I have stated before, the main problem that I see with Gove and that other bastion of truth and light that is IDS, is that they are willing, like Jeremy Hunt, to continue to ignore sound statistical and evidence based information that repudiates their position purely on ideological grounds. If that can do this with things that I have personal experience of and can recognise how the truth is ignored then how can I trust them on matters that I am less well versed in? Such as the Law.
                    Don't be modest and confine yourself to the Law !

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by charliehunt View Post
                      Would many of us care....?
                      Charlie I should think the TV audience of 4.7bn for Premier League games shown in 212 countries care quite a bit. LOL

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Oh I have no doubt you are right - my tongue was firmly planted in the cheek, hence the smiley!!

                        Not that I believe our departure from the EU would make a scrap of difference to the broadcast potential of football.
                        Charlie

                        Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                        Comment


                          #32
                          I new that hence my LOL
                          Last edited by Deano; 30th March 2016, 00:33. Reason: CoC Rule 14

                          Comment


                            #33
                            LOLs and smileys - all too confusing!!

                            I see that inveterate and lifelong europhile David Owen has decided to Leave. Europhiles for Leave, eh? What he doesn't know about the last 40 years of EU bungling isn't worth knowing.
                            Charlie

                            Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Nevertheless, I'm at a loss to understand why the news agencies are covering the views of has beens like Owen and Michael Howard.

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Why the EU was formed...

                                1:24

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg2gEvtr480
                                Last edited by MrBlueSky; 26th February 2016, 15:20.
                                Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

                                Wrong Forum!

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Bruce, the description, "Big Beasts" and the alleged influence that derives from that, used to be a media favourite !
                                  Last edited by John Green; 26th February 2016, 15:20.

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by j_jza80 View Post
                                    Leave.
                                    How does Jean Claude Juncker get his position without any sort of public electioneering? no one voted for him outside Brussels. One of the most powerful people in Europe, and he was put on his throne through backroom deals. It all stinks of corruption.
                                    You are completely and utterly wrong. In continental Europe the European Election vote to elect the MEP's was seen very much as a vote to elect the Head of the EU Commission.
                                    There was plenty of very public electioneering as you put it.
                                    That this extensive and very public activity has apparently completely passed you by either means you do not take sufficient interest in these events for your opinion to be judged valid, you are deliberately lying to further your belief or that the British public has been poorly served yet again by the supposed information dissemination channels. Or all three.

                                    Edit: Every European had a vote, whether you choose to use it was your prerogative.
                                    Last edited by snafu352; 26th February 2016, 15:43.
                                    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
                                    Bertrand Russell

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by John Green View Post
                                      ... man made global warming. .... Global warming might be taking place or, it might not, we have no way of knowing.
                                      Global warming is a product of climate change, which is happening and is probably cyclical.
                                      The science is very clear and certain that human activity is having a dis-proportionate impact on climate change beyond that that could be naturally occurring.
                                      We have ways of knowing and they are at variance with your uninformed, amateur "opinion."
                                      You can set yourself up as King Canute as much as you want but your statement is hogwash.
                                      For this reason alone any other opinion you state should be taken with a very big pinch of salt.
                                      Do you belong to the flat earthers group as well?
                                      The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
                                      Bertrand Russell

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        I very much fear that you and your like will be found to be the flat-earthers. The evidence that readings and measurements have been distorted for years is simply overwhelming. And the computer modelling on which the whole precarious edifice has been constructed has been found severely wanting. And a growing number of climate scientists have and still are distancing themselves for the joke that is the IPCC and its flawed reports.

                                        The climate has been changing over millenia, long before man's existence., and the earth has warmed and cooled regardless. And it will continue so to do - as we head for a new ice-age. Look to the sun and its complex influences for a key component in thew cycles.
                                        Last edited by Deano; 30th March 2016, 00:33. Reason: CoC Rule 14
                                        Charlie

                                        Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Re 38

                                          #39 is much as I would have it. The difference between it and your ill mannered rant is the degree of polite restraint shown.

                                          Snafu352

                                          I've always considered your contributions to be indicative of a 'work in progress'. You need more practice.

                                          Comment


                                           

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