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By: - 7th October 2013 at 05:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Answer - yes, with minor reservations. And I am an atheist. Sorry but lost the will to live half way down your post......:)
By: - 7th October 2013 at 08:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes.
As long as it is informed instruction so that the child can come to a decision as to whether an imaginary best friend who suggests its a good idea to blow up a schoolyard full of children in his name, really is believable
Moggy
By: - 7th October 2013 at 08:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No, I don't, let them make up their own minds as they grow up, after all, you can feed them as much R.E. as you like,,but it don't mean they have to swallow it.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: - 7th October 2013 at 09:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Isn't that a confusion between 'education' and 'indoctrination' Jim?
In favour of the former, dead against the latter.
Moggy
By: - 7th October 2013 at 09:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
How can you educate people in something you cant prove even exists -- how do you become qualified in that ???
By: - 7th October 2013 at 09:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Religion isn't a science. It falls into the humanities much of which is not involved with proof but with the philosophical and the metaphysical. Religion in this country, which is what we are discussing, is predominantly Christian based, and enshrined within it is a set of moral and ethical codes which forms the foundation of how the majority live their lives. It is the values which a christian (with a small c) education offers which are fundemental. Those of us who threw off the Christian cloak in favour of atheism or angnosticism did not throw off the ethical cloak we originally adopted.
By: - 7th October 2013 at 10:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Isn't that a confusion between 'education' and 'indoctrination' Jim?In favour of the former, dead against the latter.
Moggy
No Moggs, I am saying forget any kind of RE in schools, and let the kids, as they grow up, make their own minds up. One of my Grandsons, never had History taught to his class at his last school, but RE they did, which is the most important?, to me it would be a resounding shout in favour of History.
Way of the World Moggs, way of the World.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: - 7th October 2013 at 10:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
How can they make their own minds up if they are not guided through the alternatives (including atheism and agonosticism) by an informed adult? That is what education means. Indeed I think that for a while we had something called 'comparative religion' in schools? Or am I wrong. (In my day the lesson was called 'Scripture')
But one-sided faith indoctrination of any sort is to be avoided.
Moggy
By: - 7th October 2013 at 10:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Re 7
Charlie, you are correct. This country lacks a clear sense and knowledge of moral and ethical imperatives, demonstrated in just one of many ways by recent discussions concerning the lack of care and compassion within our society.
Religion used to be the medium by which these values were taught. If, through some misplaced sensitivity we no longer trust religion to deliver then we need another method.
Islam knows only certainty and has no such sensitivity and has sensed a vacuum into which it is moving with great speed.
By: - 7th October 2013 at 11:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
How can they make their own minds up if they are not guided through the alternatives (including atheism and agonosticism) by an informed adult?
So, as regards the "Informed Adult" are you saying that an informed adult, ie, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, etc should be allowed into all those schools where, in most there is a lot of different faiths, to teach them THEIR own faiths, wouldn't this confuse younger kids?.
I don't honestly believe
kids today give a hoot about religion, well, unless it's part of a game on their P.S 2s etc.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: - 7th October 2013 at 11:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I am saying every school, regardless of faith or not, should have a teacher capable of teaching about ALL the various faith options, including not having a faith.
A dream world I know, but that is how it should be.
Moggy
By: - 7th October 2013 at 12:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes, I believe there is a place for religion in school but it has to be taught correctly.
Providing the history of religion is taught and both sides of the argument discussed, allowing the child to make up their own mind I see no problem with it.
If you have seen the film `The Rite` there is a very thought provoking scene. The film is about a priest who decides to leave the church because he does not believe in god.
On his way home from resigning a girl is run down in the street and is dying. She calls out to the priest and asks him to give her the last rites.
The ultimate question. Would you deny a dying person (mother, father, son, daughter) that comfort, peace of mind even if you didn't believe yourself?
BTW I don't believe although I try to believe in something. Ceasing to exist doesn't appeal.
By: - 7th October 2013 at 12:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
John - re 10. Absolutely right. And the case for teaching nothing about religions, as Linc would have it, just does not hold water for me. If a child knows nothing of religious concepts and therefore the ethics which relate to a set of beliefs they have no knowledge to help them "make up their own minds". You can only decide what you feel about something if you understand the choices.
By: - 7th October 2013 at 15:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
[QUOTE=Moggy C;2073697]
A dream world I know, but that is how it should be.
As you say Moggs, in a dream world, However, there are far too many different faiths, and just about all contradict each other, also the interpretation of what directions to take, ie, the Bible against the Koran etc. Confuses me, let alone small kids.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: - 7th October 2013 at 15:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
@ Chas 14.
Just how many wars have been caused throughout time, in the name of Religion, by one Nations religious beliefs being forced on another Country?.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: - 7th October 2013 at 15:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well that relates directly to Moggy's point, doesn't it?. Indoctrination of one faith to the exclusion of the acceptance of any other belief will indeed cause the sorts of conflicts we have seen and still see today. Thankfully in the West we live in rather more civilised times and no longer fight each other on religious grounds - unless you are Irish of course!! |But I see no justification there for banning RE in schools.
By: - 7th October 2013 at 15:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
See Chas, There has been 17 threads on this subject, some agree some don't,so how can we expect all faiths to agree,?.on the same subject.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: - 7th October 2013 at 15:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well the posts are answering the OP's question not agreeing between different faiths. But that aside we are not asking for faiths to agree. How could they?If they did there would be only one belief system. Tolerance and respect is all that is required. I disagree with any belief in a supernatural being controlling an individual's destiny, but I find no difficulty respecting people who hold those beliefs and tolerating them. Problems arise when there is no tolerance and respect. Schools could do a good job inculcating those basic tenets into childrens.
By: - 7th October 2013 at 18:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Today at Lincoln Court, a Keith Hebden and 5 other were fined, because as a protest against Drones being used in Afghanistan, "Were Killing" Civillians, they cut the perimeter security wire at RAF Waddington.
Oh, forgot to mention, I should have said, the REV Hebden. Good example to kids re Religion?.
CLASSIC.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: - 7th October 2013 at 18:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Good example to children re Religion?.
Certainly, why not ??
Planemike
Posts: 2,748
By: snafu - 7th October 2013 at 02:12
Is religious education important?
Do children in Britain need to learn about myths and ancient fiction perpetuated by those with a vested interest in maintaining their hold over the herd with scare stories?
You might guess from my pointed statements that I do not have belief in anyone’s invisible friends; in fact the more it was pushed at me when I was at school, the more I pushed back. Religion is a personal thing and whilst you might believe in some deity you cannot come back at me when I proclaim my right to worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster (bless his noodly appendages) by pointing out he is not real, that he does not exist.
Many peoples all over the world worship many different idols, probably a lot fewer than they did before the missionaries exported themselves in an effort to save the uncivilised heathens, so who has the right to demand that theirs is right? Does the fact that your religion has the most followers in the world mean that your deity is the only god and all the others are false? How about making your fantasy friend a bit more popular by cutting back on non followers in a blessed and thoroughly violent fashion – is that right? Or protesting against whatever takes your fancy by dowsing yourself in petroleum and lighting the first match – it might be demonstrating non violence to all except yourself, but what sort of example does it give to the young or non followers? How about when some of the local representatives of your church practise their celibacy in a way that is best described as interfering with young male members with the unspoken blessing of their overseers despite their (underserved) trusted status? Or demanding that you can only be saved by donating a fair percentage of your income either directly to the church or via a representative on a television?
I realise that religion has brought some good to the world (vaccinations, disaster relief, community focus, separating rich and gullible celebs from their money, etc) but has any of this really been enough to outweigh its worst effects?
I have kids and I have (reluctantly) allowed them to attend R.E. (religious education) so that they can learn that there are other beliefs in the world, so that they can learn about other cultures and see how they have been influenced by the meeting and mixing of religions. But the emphasis seems very much heavily focused on christianity, and fairly frequently on how bad other religions are (have a guess which one in particular!) and how much better the world would be if only they worshiped some Jewish carpenter from 2000-odd years ago (I’m paraphrasing just a little bit here so as to save space, but you get the general idea). I have had arguments with quite a few of my children’s R.E. teachers, to the point that one accused me of being a trouble maker intent on damning both my son and I to an eternity in hell (after I made my FSM (bhna) belief comment – see above. And I replied that it would be interesting since I’ve never been to Norway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway). All I asked for was that if there was no actual proof then this needed to be explained to the kids – was a baby really born on Christmas day in the year zero, did that baby grow up to be nailed to a cross, die, yet apparently live on? Did this kid walk on water, serve food to a crowd of people unprepared, cure diseases and infirmities, etc? And if all this was so proven by a source apparently written a few hundred years later how come the normally efficient Romans failed to make any mention of it at the time?
Anyway, should time be made in a busy school schedule for teaching such fiction?
Maybe, but only so that children know that there is not just one religion, that many religions share their beliefs if not the same idols, that some religions swallowed up others sacred days for ease of acceptance, that ‘cuddly’ religions of today were rather more harsh in years gone by, and why should we have to live our lives according to a book apparently written 2000 years ago when other recommendations, written in that same book, are frowned upon or outlawed (incest, homosexuality, revenge murder, bestiality anybody?).
Discuss…
(Lights blue touch paper and retires to see what happens)