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By: 27th April 2013 at 19:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Paul.
I remembered it.
I went to Gallipoli once, and believe me, ANZAC Cove is tiny--with sheer walls.
Of all the places I've been in the World, it's one of the few I really want to go back to.
I used to post on forums what I considered significant dates from The Great War, but so few people ever commented, I sort of gave up.
Maybe with the centenary of those great events coming up, we should start a thread with significant dates--anyone interested??
Of course, another date I mentally noted was St George's Day, which was the 95th aniversary of the Zeebrugge raid.
Both the April 25th 1915, an April 23rd 1918 operations at Galipoli and Zeebrugge brought a big haul of Victoria crosses.
A.
By: 27th April 2013 at 20:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Yes I rembered St Georges Day and thought about posting but a lot of significant dates seem to go over peoples heads these days. BTW my Paternal Grandfather was a Royal Marine at Zeebrugge and fortunately survived.
1st of July is the next date for me. My Maternal Grandfather was in the carnage of the Battle of the Somme, he was gassed but survived to fight on to the end. He was in the Royal Artillery. "The war to end all wars!"
By: 27th April 2013 at 21:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Right then old son, we'll have an aniversary thread.
Tell me about your Grandfathers though too please??
Zeebrugge was a fascinating if slightly risky operation.
Have you ever been there to have a look..?
Andy.
By: 27th April 2013 at 21:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-My great-grandfather,a retired Royal Marine,was in the Royal Naval Division and actually served briefly alongside ANZAC troops at Gallipoli.
He wasn't there very long before falling ill and being sent back to the UK,but I'm very proud that he was actually there.
By: 27th April 2013 at 21:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Never been there Andy but he was onboard HMS Thetis and rescued by motor launch. He was landed in Fance or Belgium(not sure witch) and ended up fighting in the trenches until wounded and invalided out with trench foot. He died on Christmas eve 1926 leaving a wife and seven children virtually destitute. That is all I know about him.
My other Grandfather lived with us until he died in 1966 and spent all his war with 13 pounders and he told me in graphic details about that war and all it horrors. I could write a book on it and the stupidity of British Officers that seemed happy to get themselves and their men killed. The over riding memories are about the mud and whole gun crews with their guns and horses being swallowed up in it.
By: 28th April 2013 at 10:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I only remembered St Georges day, because it was on the Calendar. I put out the flag, and never got a visit from the Council, as I did the other year, asking me to take it down. Feckin Red Tape?.
Good idea Andy, start it off.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: 28th April 2013 at 10:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-In the back garden of a bungalow a few doors from us the cross of St George is flying most days and has since we moved here. I presume they are English!!:)
By: 28th April 2013 at 14:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Just hope they are Chas, if not, make sure your out of the Blast area.:D
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: 29th April 2013 at 20:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Whilst I know a little bit about the Great War, anniversaries of battles or campaigns etcetera all prove rather meaningless to me in the end. As Andy knows, it is the smaller, more personal anniversaries which prove of interest to me. Occasionally, they coincide with larger ones, such as July 1st 1916. But, in the main, it is the minutiae of the everyday lives of the individual soldier, sailor or airman which both intrigues and ignites my interest.
A case in point happened a few years ago here on these forums when a very well respected member came across some Great War headstones and decided to see what he could find out about those commemorated, in particular an RFC pilot was involved in a fatal accident at St. Ives in Cambridgeshire. The pilot's name was Kenneth Wastell and he was killed flying an Airco DH6 on the 23rd March 1918. It was Steve Young, sadly no longer with us, who began to delve into the demise of Kenneth and when he discovered that Kenneth was a Birmingham lad we agreed that we would work together and that in the future Steve and I would look around Birmingham for evidence of the family. A few short weeks later Steve was killed in a road accident. About a year later I began research in earnest. I got a fair way along with it, and it is a long and complicated story, but I never got as far as I wanted with it. So now March 23rd I remember not only Kenneth, but Steve as well. I can't help hoping that there is an afterlife and that Kenneth and Steve, pilots both, have managed to meet up and chat about that fateful day in 1918. Just maybe they shared a pint too.
There are many other anniversaries to which I have become attached during the course of my research. With your indulgence I will copy a couple of posts from another long dead thread to illustrate just how personal things can get when you start to dig. Sometimes the bones need a little flesh and it is that 'flesh' which turns a name on a War Memorial into a man I would love to have known.....
I have around 70 letters written by 28512 L/Cpl Edmund Henstock to his wife Kate and their children Reggie and Kathleen. I have just one letter to Edmund from Kathleen and I would like to share just two of these letters with you all as I feel they deserve a far wider audience. The letters are transcribed here with the spelling and punctuation used by Edmund and Kate.
Edmund was serving with the 2/5 battalion of the South Staffordshire Regiment, a Territorial unit traditionally raised and based in my home town of Walsall. Edmund was a man from Matlock in Derbyshire and had been called up in 1916. Now, in April 1917, he was 38 years old. He had been sent from the Notts & Derbyshire Regiment to the South Staffs whilst still in England. This first letter, from Edmund to Kate, Reggie and Kathleen is dated 8th April 1917. Edmund had been in France for less than a fortnight……
My Dear Kiddie & Chicks.
Sunday here again, & Easter too, & we are so far away from each other but we are together in thought & mind & being Sunday I must send you a few lines. But in the first place dear I have received no letter or news from you since I left Redcar but yesterday (Sat) I received the HP News & I cannot understand why I have received no letter at all for I have already had a letter from Uncle C and one from Herbert. Perhaps you have written dear and it has over carried but I am so anxious to hear from you dearest, to know how you all are but perhaps I shall have a letter today so shall leave this till later before I post it then I can let you know.
I hope Reg is again better dear also our little Babs, bless her, I would just love to see her now, for I expect she is growing and taking more notice of things now & I often look at your photo with you all three on & can picture you at home & outdoors.
I am keeping well dear except just touches of rheumatism at times but the weather has really been so bad lately & cold but today Sunday it is better & much warmer & I hope it will keep on now it has started, because you have summertime now I expect you have put the clock on if it is still going dear. out here it has been summertime for a fortnight or so now.
I saw another chap here yesterday, one of our original crowd who went to Jersey with us last June, a chap named Soloman from Nottingham & we were pleased to see each other & we had quite a nice little chat, he is in a tent not far from mine.
Uncle tells me that he fancies Cousin Stanley is not far from here, so I am on the lookout in case I drop across him so may meet him at any time.
It seems rotten dear being away from home at Easter but really it does not seem at all like this season, for Sunday here is just like any other and one gets out of count with the days and the date of them.
I hope Reggie is a good boy and when I come across a nice Post Card I shall send him one but give him Daddie’s love & a big kiss & also the same for our dear little Kathleen.
If you see Mrs. Parish please tell her I find the helmet most useful out here at night & it is such a great comfort to me & I really would not like to be without it now.
And I am still all right dear for other things & we do our own washing out here, as we have a washing parade but getting our things dry is another matter altogether & we have to be careful we do not get them stolen, so really it is best not to have anything extra special out here, & I am thankful to say I have a much better supply than most of the chaps out here, but the food is the worst, we have to either eat it or go without & one eats such stuff as we would never eat at home & were I to tell you all you would be surprised, but you see we do not seal our letters up when we post them as they have to be censored.
Give my love to Mom when next you write to her & tell her that I met Frank out here but have not seen him again since then but hope he is all right.
And give my love to Lizzie & all at home & also all at West End when next you see them & kindest regards to Mr. & Mrs. Rowbottom & all enquiring friends.
Whilst I am writing this I am nibbling one of our dog biscuits as it takes me 3 hours to wade through one of them so you may guess just how hard they are.
We have been to service today in our cinema house but it is not like our own services at home as there is nothing genuine about it but all sham.
Will now leave this little lot till after our post has arrived so ta ta my sweetheart till then.
Sunday night 8 pm.
Your very welcome letter and cigs quite safely to hand just arrived but have not yet read it as it is too dark to read it at present so shall have to wait till morning as I can scarcely see to write this, have again come across Frank, he is up here is well.
I have also received a parcel and letter from Uncle C & aunt M & a letter from Edith which I will answer in due course yours as well dearest.
Will now close so good-night my darlings & God bless & keep you safe with best love & heaps of kisses to my 3 darlings from your loving & affectionate Hubby & Daddy.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Edmund was going into the line in the Jeancourt area of the Somme. He sent a Field Post Card home on the 11th of April.
Edmund was in and out of the line with his unit and according to the War Diary they experienced several days of heavy shelling and mounted at least one raid on the enemy trenches. The Research team at the South Staffordshire Regimental Museum seem to think it was highly likely that Edmund would have taken part in this raid and one or two patrols into No Man’s Land.
The next letter is from Kate to Edmund.
Thursday 17 May.
My Dear Hubby.
No news again from you dear what is the matter, so I am going to register this letter to you & see if you will get this for [I have] written four or five times a week to you dear also sent parcel and papers but no letter or cards or anything & I am just about worried to death.
I have some very sad news for you also this time dear. I heard this morning our Frank was dead, died last night at his home in Leicester. Annie Doxey brought me the wire across this morning. Poor Frank, I should have liked to have seen him. Annie says she thinks they will bring him here to Matlock to bury him so will let you know all in my next letter, do write dear for I am about off my head with worry & one thing or another.
I do hope you are alright dear & nothing has happened to you for I fancy all sorts of things & I cannot help worrying but I know you would write if you could dear. We are all fairly well. Baby has 6 teeth now dear and gets so bonnie. I do wish you could see her and Reggie grows too but oh dear he nearly drives me off my head, he is just setting the tea for me while I write this & of all the performances, he is sticking his fingers into everything & licking the cream off the milk. Oh dear, he is a tease and no mistake.
Well now dear I will close & get tea & then take this so all our love my darling & God bless you dear & take care of you from your loving wife sonnie & girlie.
XXXXXXXX
As Kate wrote her letter on that quiet Thursday afternoon she had no idea that she had already been a widow for three weeks. Reggie, now six years of age would never see his Father again and would only have vague memories of him leaving one day in his Sunday best and returning on leave in his rough khaki uniform and carrying a rifle. For Kathleen, just a few months old, there would be no memories of her Father at all.
The dreaded telegram must have arrived soon after this letter was posted, for on the 29th May, Kate received the official letter stating that Edmund had indeed been killed in action. The letter stated that he had been killed on the 3rd of May but he had in fact been killed on the 26th of April 1917. It is thought likely that he was killed by a shell burst which claimed the lives of two other men of the Battalion. Privates Harvey and Merchant died alongside Edmund that day and now all three lie side by side in Jeancourt Communal Cemetery Extension.
For Kate, one can only imagine the grief at losing Edmund. She lived on into her eighties but never remarried.
The tragedy of all of this is that it is just an ordinary story of ordinary people and it was lived out with the same result day after day for four long years. I think it has been said that no family was left untouched by the Great War, Kate and Edmund’s story is just one very small part of that, but a part which becomes clearer, more immediate and more heartbreaking through the survival of letters such as these.
Just to add a little more to the story. The first photo below is of Edmund and Kate. We believe it to be on the occasion of their marriage but we're not 100% certain. If we're right, it dates the photo to October 7th 1907.
At the time, Kate Henstock (nee Hill) was working as an assistant in a hat shop which could very well be the reason she was wearing such a magnificent hat in the photo. Edmund, aged 28 at the time, was a hydrotherapy assistant at Smedley's Hydro in Matlock. Both Matlock and Matlock Bath were famous for the reportedly health inducing properties of the local water. It seems the whole of Edmund's family lived and worked in Matlock and it appears they were a close knit family in a close knit community.
The marriage was blessed with the birth of Reggie in 1911 but he was a sickly child and prone to more than his share of childhood sickness. Kathleen was born in October 1916, not long after Edmund had been conscripted. It seems from the letters that the pregnancy was a difficult one and we believe that Kathleen may have been born somewhat prematurely. The stress of a difficult pregnancy coupled with an already sickly child and the absence of her husband meant Kate often needed help from her sisters to cope.
Edmund appears to have been a quiet and conscientious man. They were clearly a devoted family but one which already had been touched by tragedy. His brother Samuel was a regular. 351 Corporal Samuel Henstock, 6th Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derby Regiment.) Samuel died of wounds received in action on the 3rd of June, 1915. He was 26. He is interred in the Bailleul Communal Cemetery Extension (Nord.) Bailleul was the site of a number of field hospitals and casualty clearing stations.
Edmund's Brothers Charles, Albert and Herbert all also served and all were pensioned out for various reasons. It is not yet known whether a fifth Brother, Leonard, also served.
For Edmund's parents, the loss of two sons was too much to bear and both became infirm and needed constant care. They were separated and lived in the care of family members until their deaths shortly afterwards.
Below are a couple of pictures of Edmund in the uniform of the Sherwood Foresters and of the South Staffords.
The next photo is of the Cemetery at Jeancourt and is courtesy of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website.
This last one is a photograph of the letter notifying Kate of Edmund's death.
Edmund is buried with two other colleagues from the 2/5 South Staffs. It is now believed that Edmund and one of the others killed were acting as stretcher bearers and that as they were carrying a wounded comrade to the rear, all three were caught in a shellburst and killed instantly. It is further believed their bodies lay unclaimed at the side of the road until they were discovered a few days later.
Sorry for rambling, but this is the very essence of remembrance for me. Maybe one day, if I can ever do it justice, 'my dearest kiddie and chicks' might become a more permanent tribute.
Regards,
kev35
By: 29th April 2013 at 21:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Wonderful stuff as ever Kev.
When are you going to let me take you over there??
You know I'd consider it a great honour to do so.
A.
By: 30th April 2013 at 09:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Just to finish, throughout this April/May period in 1915, the Second Battle of Ypres was grinding on. This battle--or series of battles saw the first documented use of poison gas, although the Germans may have experimented with it on the Eastern Front slightly earlier.
Of course, The Western Front was never still, with casualties every day--they called it wastage.
A.
By: 30th April 2013 at 09:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Kev, as ever THANK YOU for highlighting the the real side of war and the effects on everyone connected.
By: 30th April 2013 at 09:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Yes, thank you, Kev. It has re-focussed my mind on my own family involvement but of which there is sadly little or no record remaining. My grandfather was killed at the fag end of the war during the Summer of 1918 in Italy, having survived France. My mother was 6 at the time and had hardly known him and for reasons which I never really understood my grandmother destroyed all the letters between them and almost everything else which was a tangible record, leaving my mother with a few photos, his service medal and the "official" letter notifying my grandmother of his death. My grandmother, who lived into my teens, and in our house for a few years, would never speak about my grandfather or the war.
By: 30th April 2013 at 16:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Unusual for me to pop down here, but I spotted the thread and had a look.
My granny's uncle Jo was at Anzac, having the luck to arrive in early September just after the last of the set-piece attacks. That luck seems to have stayed with him as, despite being a Private, he seems to have managed to be at HQ at any time something dangerous was going on - how, I don't know! Granny had a photo of him looking very smart and manly in his uniform with his slouch hat and sunburst badge, and was quite sure that he's been murdered for his demob money when he returned to Australia after the war. In 2001 I found a very different story - he'd decided to make a clean break from his family, and start a new life. It turns out that the big, bronzed, manly Aussie I'd imagined was 5'6", slightly built, bright ginger, and never lost his Scots accent or his love of a p***-up and a punch-up!
If WW1 is your thing, take a look at http://www.oldshep.co.uk/ - one village's memories. I will confess to having a vested interest, I scanned 13 albums-worth of the photos! Shepreth seems to feature heavily in the realms of WW1 stories making the news, one of the joys of having a journalist involved.
Adrian
Posts: 2,841
By: paul178 - 27th April 2013 at 18:30
But two days later I remembered ANZAC Day those this is my tribute to those who died and those survived injured in mind and body.
Now all have passed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG48Ftsr3OI