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Are We Slowly Slipping Into World War?

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    Originally posted by RpR View Post
    There would be no nukes; whereas, the U.S. is fully aware that Russia could send in Bear bombers, or Blackjacks, using them in the same manner as B-52s were used in "Nam with the difference being of those shot down, the air crews would very close to safe territory so air rescue would be much easier for the Russians.
    Bear bombers? You mean a Tu95MS - the only version is service - with bombs?

    They'd need to do some modifications first - they are strategic missile carriers.

    Armament
    Radar-controlled Guns: 1 or 2 23 mm AM-23 autocannon in tail turret.
    Missiles: Up to 15,000 kg (33,000 lb), including the Raduga Kh-20, Kh-22, Kh-26, and Kh-55/101/102 Air-to-surface missiles.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-95
    And the Blackjack is not exactly running like a dream...

    There is a particular problem with the engines; although Kuznetsov designed an NK-32M engine that improved the reliability of the troublesome NK-32 engines, its successor company has struggled to deliver working units. Metallist-Samara JSC has not produced new engines for a decade and when it was given a contract in 2011 to overhaul 26 of the existing engines, it managed just four in two years. There are problems with the ownership of the company and it lacks finance to build a new production line; it insists it needs an order of 20 engines per year but the government is only prepared to pay for 4-6 engines per year.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-160
    Still, I don't suppose it will come to that. Hopefully.

    Comment


      Originally posted by RpR View Post
      A Blackjack can carry over 80,000 lbs of free fall bombs.
      What a diamond formation from 20,000 ft can do to a large area of troops on the ground, as U.S. pows said, caused N. Viet guards to pee in their pants.
      But they only have 16 aircraft - that's three diamond formations and the training diamond...



      Originally posted by RpR View Post
      To shoot them down the allied or U.S. troops would have to turn on radar and Russia has Wild Weasel aircraft just as effective as the U.S.
      But since they only have 12 combat ready Blackjacks...;o)

      Comment


        Russia, or is it just Putin, still likes to talk tough considering how poor a state their military is in. There was a time that Russia really was 'the Bear next door' but now the United Kingdom alone spends nearly as much on defence as Russia; add in the rest of the European Union, NATO and finally the United States (together, even just economically, not militarily) and you wonder why Russia is throwing its weight (what little it has left) about.

        I worry about Putin.....talk about 'overcompensating'!
        WA$.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Creaking Door View Post
          So why do you keep outlining what can only be described as 'war' between US and Russian forces?

          With fleets of bombers raining explosives down on opposing forces how do you expect this not to escalate into a nuclear exchange?
          Because there is not a reason on earth to have to use nukes for anything.
          Of course if you prefer---- were doomed, doooooomed I say.
          Last edited by RpR; 14th March 2014, 05:47.

          Comment


            Originally posted by snafu View Post
            But they only have 16 aircraft - that's three diamond formations and the training diamond...

            But since they only have 12 combat ready Blackjacks...;o)
            Oh it is amazing how in times of a shooting war things suddenly seeming impossible or near so can be made to happen rather quickly.

            The U.K. showed in the Falklands how that works and the Ukraine is not near as far away.

            Comment


              CD - Putin doesn't care much what Russia thinks as long as his political elite and the security forces support him.

              He is the classic little man throwing his weight where he can because as has already been observed Russia is half the country it once was and although he likes to think he leads a superpower he does not. Having said that in this case he holds the aces and the West has a weak hand.
              Charlie

              Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

              Comment


                Originally posted by RpR View Post
                Because there is not a reason on earth to have to use nukes for anything...
                I wish I shared your confidence that reason and planning would prevail in direct conflict between East and West...

                ...for example, would you say that the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan worked-out exactly how the military and politicians planned them to?

                To date, has there ever been open conflict between two nuclear-armies states?
                WA$.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by RpR View Post
                  Oh it is amazing how in times of a shooting war things suddenly seeming impossible or near so can be made to happen rather quickly.

                  The U.K. showed in the Falklands how that works and the Ukraine is not near as far away.
                  Britain took up civilian ships to transport men and supplies all that way, yes. Totally different premise though.

                  But Russia is never going to be able to magic up a few more Blackjacks - unless they are after the long out of service ones that the Ukrainian air force had in the early 2000s...

                  (There are so few Blackjacks in Russian service that each one is named, like the B2s!!!)

                  Comment


                    This year Scotland, Crimea and now Venice!!

                    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rom-Italy.html
                    Charlie

                    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                    Comment


                      Maybe what you need is a spark.
                      Take one hijacked airliner. Fly to remote airfield. Insert dirty bomb. Fly over populated city. Let the air defenses do the rest.

                      Comment


                        No, we're not as close to midnight as we have been in the past. We're too interconnected for single sparks to start a conflagration these days.

                        Ukraine/Crimea: well settle down into Russian control over Crimea, whether de factor or de jure (doesn't matter). Russia will not invade/annex eastern Ukraine. Lots of hot air, but in the end even sanctions against Russia will either not proceed or will be feeble. Nobody is prepared to put their neck on the line, because Russia already has huge influence in the region anyway. Ukraine - as a country - suffers, but the place had decades to sort itself out and it didn't. Just mired itself in corruption and economic decline, and hence became less relevant and less influential as a part of the economic community.

                        EU weakness to the Russian bear: won't change, as there is no political appetite in Euroland to face economic or geopolitical realities and hence reduce dependence on Russia. We've all seen Euro elites spend the last 5 years sticking their heads in the sand over the GFC. The only thing in Europe to make the Russians feel wary will - again - be the US, and - again - the Europeans will display total schizophrenia about that, by knowing it's keeping them safe but at the same time decrying perceived Yankee imperialism/cultural inferiority.

                        North Korea: will not attack the South or launch rogue attacks on Japan etc. Will continue to be a thorn in the region's side. Geopolitical reality is that actual attacks on SK/Japan will cause Pyongyang to be turned into rubble by Uncle Sam. China knows this and would not react beyond rhetoric.

                        Chinese aggression: will stay but the rhetoric will be toned down somewhat as the new regime settles in. Japan will continue its military build up and will continue to p*ss off the rest of the region by refusing to talk about WW2 atrocities.

                        Middle East uprisings/civil wars: baddie vs baddie. Can't see major Western interventions happening unless the one free, democratic country in the region (Israel) is threatened. Increasing US annoyance at the Gulf countries feeling scared about Iran but not tackling it themselves.

                        Terrorism: will not start WW3.

                        Failed states like Somalia, Pakistan, Yemen: any conflict will be seen a la Middle East uprisings, i.e. baddie vs baddie so why intervene. Issue of Pakistani nukes only issue, but one area I could see concerted and direct action by major powers.
                        Skiaynin Vannin

                        Comment


                          I go along with almost all of that and any lingering doubts about the Middle East were clarified by US vacillation and ultimate rejection of any meaningful action.

                          The US is still the only superpower and it sets the tone for the West, which is now one of pragmatism not aggression.
                          Charlie

                          Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by charliehunt View Post
                            The US is still the only superpower
                            I shall try and remind you of that when the Chinese have nuked 'Merica and are invading Europe...;o)

                            Comment


                              You could try but I shan't live to see it........in any case I wrote and you correctly quoted "is". I was not debating the future.
                              Last edited by charliehunt; 15th March 2014, 22:30.
                              Charlie

                              Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                              Comment


                                Any country that has a weapon to wipe out the opposition is a superpower.Just a question on whether you can wipe them out before they wipe you out.I guess if you have 100 missiles compared to others 20 missiles then your success rate should be more but we will be beyond caring then.

                                Comment


                                  In the generally accepted use of the term the US and the USSR were the two superpowers. It was certainly never applied to the UK or France for example.
                                  Charlie

                                  Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                                  Comment


                                    Not this century, anyway.

                                    Comment


                                      Not in any other century for that matter.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by nkvd View Post
                                        Not in any other century for that matter.
                                        So the fact English is the predominant language, that Britain ruled half the world and instilled its culture globally - that doesn't meant that is was a one-time superpower?

                                        I think you're confusing Britain's present position with it's previous position.
                                        Skiaynin Vannin

                                        Comment


                                          Britain once had the largest empire in the world but before the word "superpower" was coined. By the time the word was in use its empire was long since dead. Thus the US and the USSR were the only two candidates at the time.
                                          Charlie

                                          Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                                          Comment


                                           

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