Is it time for another EU referendum?

Read the forum code of contact

Member for

11 years 8 months

Posts: 569

I know this is probably quite a controversial topic, but what are your thoughts?

The last time there was a referendum on the UK being in the EU was 1975. I wasn't even born then, so my generation hasn't had their say.
And let's be honest, lots has changed to the EU over the past 37 years. Over the decades we've seen our laws flow to Brussels and we've seen far more sponge countries (those taking more out than they're putting in) join - such as Greece, Poland, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria.

I'm also fed up with the amount the British tax payer (you and I) pay towards the EU. It's outrageous that we are the second largest contributor to the EU budget (calculated on per capita figures).
http://www.eu-oplysningen.dk/euo_en/spsv/all/79/

I have no problem with having strong links with Europe, they are a key cog of our economy - but why oh why must they control how our farmers and fisherman conduct themselves and why must we fit the bill for Poland and co.'s failings? :confused:

Original post

Member for

14 years

Posts: 1,234

No.

Most people don't understand it. So they will vote the way the Mail/Sun/Mirror/X factor (And any other meaningless brain dead shyte the plebs read or watch) tells them. And that, unfortunately, will be enough votes to pass for an "Out".
"Unfortunately", because the majority of UK now has the scholastic knowledge which is associated with Sun / Mirror etc. Gunnings Fog of approximately 3.

We should stay in Europe, but bang the desk harder.
In "Europe" itself, (I've just lived a year) they laugh at the way we in UK adopt 100% of the so called directives. They apply common sense.

Member for

12 years 11 months

Posts: 1,542

We should stay in it, because you apparently know better?

That's not how Democracy works I'm afraid, and though people's reasons and motivations may be different than yours, it doesn't make them any less valid.

All of the Polls show a decisive majority in favour of leaving, and I for one am with them.

Member for

11 years 8 months

Posts: 569

I guess someone who's just spent a year in mainland Europe is just as bias as a daily mail reader?

I wouldn't mind staying in the EU if I thought we were getting value for money - the fact is, we aren't. And the notion that fellow EU states (France, Germany) would reduce trade with us if we leave just because we'd be "outsiders", I personally find laughable.

Obviously if we leave the EU, bilateral agreements with France and Germany (and other large EU economies) would have to be put in place to ensure we don't lose trade. These countries would have to agree to these bilateral's - simply because they have too much to lose...
Eg.

Britain's exports to Germany = £27.5 Billion.
Britain's imports from Germany = £41.1 Billion.

Britain's exports to France = £18.9 Billion.
Britain's imports from France = £19.1 Billion

The story's the same for Italy and Spain, we buy so much from the Europeans they'd have to agree to our bilateral proposals post EU departure.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/feb/24/uk-trade-exports-imports#

Member for

14 years

Posts: 1,234

I'm not saying I know better,
I'm saying the majority of the people asked to vote have no actual idea. This includes the polls.

We would lose trillions in trade if not part of it.
People are saying get out because they assume it will put more money in their pocket. 1) it may actually be worth a couple of pence income tax. 2) But this is not how a Government works - they never refund the 80% "Workers". If there is any possible chance that the 80% of us could be slightly better off, they will find another way of taking it. It's called the Landmine Theory (I named it after that movie Full M jacket I think)...in which a small explosion forces the soldiers to dive off the road into the ditch, where of course the big land mines are hidden. This is how it works, you will have no choices but to do something, then they will tax it because your balls are in the mangle.

Member for

14 years

Posts: 1,234

We should stay in it, because you apparently know better?

That's not how Democracy works I'm afraid, and though people's reasons and motivations may be different than yours, it doesn't make them any less valid.

All of the Polls show a decisive majority in favour of leaving, and I for one am with them.

Democracy gives you the Government you deserve.
So yes, if it goes to a vote, we will be out of Europe.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 2,886

At this moment in time, I am undecided as to which way I would vote in a referendum on Europe, if indeed, I would vote at all. Something I would really like to know from the 'lets get out folk' is, how will we be affected economically, by leaving the EU? How will our trading patterns be changed? Over the years since our membership began, much has altered. The arrival of economic globalisation has transformed the international landscape. Its beginning to look as though the day of the nation state is fast drawing to a close, so should we be looking at ways to 'buck the trend'? Are we bigger in or out? I dare say that when, or if, the referendum comes, we will be bombarded with propaganda from both sides, I don't read newspapers, so they would not persuade me one way or the other.

What does make me a little uneasy, is how the question may be worded on the ballot paper. IMO, wether or not to leave the EU, is a very important and complex matter. I can wave a Union Flag as well as the next man, and frequently have, but the outcome of a vote such as this, will have far reaching consequences for our own countries future, and that of the EU itself. So therefore, is a simple 'stay in or come out' voting slip really appropriate? Too many unanswered questions at this stage, well for me at any rate.

Member for

11 years 5 months

Posts: 11,141

Because no nation has ever left the club no one quite knows what will happen or what the post departure relationship will be. One thing is for sure - as we import more than we export the EU will lose a profitable export market if they try to make life difficult for us. They will also lose £8 billion in net revenue.

My guess is that the result will depend on the wording of the question. What frustrates and irritates people, regardless of the press they read, is the overweaning bureaucracy and the raft of legislation which national governments are bound to abide by.

Most people would accept a reversion to the EEC style arrangements which other peripheral nations adopt. We and they would maintain trading arrangements but be freed of club membership. In any case Europe is a declining economic grouping, its future and that of its currency in its present form in doubt and and the sooner we expand our trade with the rest of the world the better.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 4,964

We should have a referendum on changing the name from EU to EU and the rest of the world bit by bit as they become neighbours

Member for

11 years 5 months

Posts: 11,141

The "rest of the world" is unlikely to be joining the club, though, is it?;)

Member for

11 years 4 months

Posts: 24

Well, I am one that prefers we left the EU as it stands. It has mutated drastically from the original 70s trade agreement that those in power at the time, and advocating us to join, should have seen it as the thin end of the wedge; which it surely has become, driving deeper and deeper into our national control.
I also don't believe that if we left trade would diminish; they (the EU membership) are surely not going to bite their noses off to spite their faces. As Charlie Hunt said, and I agree, we import more from them than we export to them.
Cost is another point. The regular monthly meetings are shared between Brussells and Strasbourg. The cost of transporting all documents, hotel bills, expenses, etc. is astronomical and comes to over a 1 Million euros per month. That is just the cost of the monthly venue change, not the meeting itself. Also, the last 13 or so annual EU accounting audits have not been ratified and hence not signed off; an occurance they seem happy about each year.
Judging by PeeDee's first post, I imagine I will be seen as a heretic and, as a non-believer, a fervent reader of the tabloids feeding on s***e. However, my opinion is based on an erudite grasp of the current situation but nonetheless, respect others who may have differing opinions to mine on this subject.
Richard

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 4,964

The "rest of the world" is unlikely to be joining the club, though, is it?;)

US and china no...but with parts of asia now in europe, somehow, it's becoming more global than it was or should be.

Member for

11 years 5 months

Posts: 11,141

What I meant was that the only nations likely to want to join the EU basket case are third world countries who join for the handouts.