Special constables

By: Sky High - 18th August 2011 at 08:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I agree. Same in education - semi-trained "assistants" being used in the classroom to save money on highly qualified supply teachers to cover absence and illness.

By: jbritchford - 18th August 2011 at 10:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I think it's rather insulting to call people who are willing to put themselves potentially in harms way to serve their community as 'muppets', particularly when they are volunteers.

Agreed that keeping professionals on board would provide a better level of service (perhaps not the best word, but you know what I'm getting at), but given that the govt is going to be getting rid of many posts either way, shouldn't you be happy that some people will step up to the mark, for free?

By: Sky High - 18th August 2011 at 10:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Not really, because the objection is to the way the limited resources are being allocated and the way the resources are used. That is a debate for another thread, which we have already had, but suffice to say that those public servants in the "frontline" should be where the money is focussed.

By: Lincoln 7 - 18th August 2011 at 11:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Tornado 64. Please clarify, do you mean Special Constables, or P.C.S.O.s?.
The reason is, is there is a big difference between the two.
Jim.

Lincoln .7

By: spitfireman - 18th August 2011 at 11:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

........spelling for one...........:p

By: Bob - 18th August 2011 at 12:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I'd rather see more Specials on the beat rather than the waste of space Blunkett (NON) Bobbies - at least they can carry out the full range of duties instead of standing around calling for a real copper to appear...

By: TonyT - 18th August 2011 at 12:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I think it's rather insulting to call people who are willing to put themselves potentially in harms way to serve their community as 'muppets', particularly when they are volunteers.

Volunteer Muppets then??

If they want to be a policeman, join the police....... another Government shortcut to doing it on the cheap relying on a bunch of busy bodies to do the job.

By: kev35 - 18th August 2011 at 12:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Is it true that PCSO stands for Please Call a Sensible Officer?

Regards,

kev35

By: Sky High - 18th August 2011 at 12:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

No, it's Please Come and Sort this Out.....

By: kev35 - 18th August 2011 at 13:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

To be fair, my experience of PCSOs in Cheshire has been very positive. Whereas my experience of old time Special Constables in Walsall a few years ago was the exact opposite.

Regards,

kev35

By: Lincoln 7 - 18th August 2011 at 13:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

sense is something they are well short of !! from some of thier well documented **** ups most seem to be 18 stone pie eaters with an IQ to match thier weight !!

I have to agree on that! I often had an unpaid Special with me when on duty and have been, many times greatful for the help and company. They had to put in so? many hrs training each month, and go on duty so many hrs per month, all of which were worth there weight in gold. So perhaps they didn't have any powers, but they were not frightened to get stuck in as and when needed. And, they didn't get paid.

As for PCSOs, I didnt realise until recently, they get not far off what a PC gets, considering they to have little or no powers, they are a waste of our money. I was in Peterborough the other day, and Security were chasing a shoplifter, lagging well behind were two PCSOs, grossly overweight. They should be taken off the job until they slim down, and able to chase and aprehend the ones they chase. Waste of space, and further more wouldn't like to have one of them watching my 6.
But this is only my opinion, (And no doubt hundreds of others)
Jim.
Lincoln .7

By: Sky High - 18th August 2011 at 14:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I think your opinion is widely held and in fact many of us have not had our original opinion of "Blunkett's Babes" disabused.

By: hunterxf382 - 18th August 2011 at 14:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

My opinion on this............

I'm an ex-Special, so I can speak from experience back in the 90's before the PCSO's came into being....

Having left the RAF, I became part of the local community and felt there was something lacking in my life after many years serving within a close-knit forces community. I joined the Specials to 'do my bit' within my own area, which happened to be in a well-known part of Birmingham with problems ranging from Prostitution, Drug Dealers, and Inter-racial tensions to name a few. I soon settled into the discipline of being back in a uniform, and despite some initial reservations about the opinions of regular officers about us, I soon settled into working with one dedicated unit and put in more hours than some of them :eek:
I thoroughly enjoyed the challenge, and was put in some situations that raised a few eyebrows amongst my colleagues, but I just carried on with the role as I am the sort to be loyal and trustworthy when part of a team - whether paid or not!
I was even looked upon for assistance in my paid job if needed, as I was working for a well-known Motoring Retailer and we had a few shoplifters who had the shock of their lives when caught suddenly by someone they least suspected ;)

I looked upon the tasks as an insight into the work of my paid regular colleagues, and tried to apply to join up full-time. Sadly my timing was unfortunate as there was major re-structuring taking place and recruiting was slowed down as a result. I continued to serve until my paid work shifts started to impact on my free time, and was sad to have to leave when my circumstances changed.

Would I do it again (whether as a result of recent events or not) - YES
Times have changed, and there is some repayment for travel expenses etc these days, something which didn't exist in my day. I jumped at chances to work with Police units that were thought impossible amongst some, working undercover, Traffic division, and with the Vice unit. Couldn't get on Air Support, but I did try.....

I saw the new PCSO role come into being, and had reservations right away when I saw their restricted powers. I couldn't work like that - it just seemed too restrictive and frustrating, so never gave it another thought....
However, I now work in Public Transport (Trams) here in the West Midlands, where we work closely with British Transport Police, and they have their own PCSO's who have much more power than normal ones! They work in close co-operation with transport operators, and are seen in a different light to normal PCSO's, more like Specialist Officers who supplement the few regular BTP Officers that each area has.

Big difference there, and I'm actually in favour of these BTP PCSO's much more than the normal PCSO's.
Would I do this role? YES - given the extra powers they have, and the greater variety of their work.

I can see how people will feel about the normal PCSO's restrictive role, and I've certainly seen a few about that don't look like they could really be bothered, which annoys me. BUT - it is unfair to tar every one of them with the same brush - as it is equally unfair to target ALL Specials as "muppets" thankyou.....

By: TonyT - 18th August 2011 at 15:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

as it is equally unfair to target ALL Specials as "muppets" thankyou.....

A well put, coherent and lucid argument put there hunterxf382 and I congratulate you on putting your point across so eloquently, not to be seen as being insensitive I have amended my feelings on the subject accordingly..

99% Volunteer Muppets then?? :)

By: Sky High - 18th August 2011 at 15:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I have just seen Hunter's post. Admirable. Nothing betters personal experience and opinions based on that experience.

By: Nashio966 - 18th August 2011 at 18:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

AFAIK The powers of each forces PCSO's are granted by said forces C/Constable.

Within my job role - I find pcso's immensely useful and willing to assist.

Pcso's can deal with things like "oooh that mrs johnson has cut my side of the rosebush" to "these bloody parents park on the wrong side of the road every day at the end of school"

All of those smaller neighbourhood problems that need mediation but not nessecarily that of a police officer. Its extremely handy having a PCSO or 4 to hand.

They are essentially uniformed Civvies with some traffic warden powers (force dependant)

(~45% of my colleagues in control room are Special Constables)

Special Constable - Again very useful, as they are police officers. they can attend and deal with most jobs a normal police officer would however those in our force dont recieve "Immediate" training, that is to say a special constable cannot drive himself/herself to a job with illuminated blues (obv with another police officer driving they can)

Both types of resource are excellent tools to help bolster numbers accross the area/shift.

I disagree with some forces wanting a 1:1 ratio of specials and regular police officers.

As much as they are an excellent tool, its rare that a special will do all of the followup investigations into any crimes that they dealt with (due to having their own jobs) this falls down to fulltime paid police officers/staff

IMO - Single biggest problem with the running of the police force is that its done like a business - The people that call on the 9's are "Customers" :rolleyes:

I disagree with this ethos. This has allowed the general public to be come dependant on the police to solve the pettiest of issues! where before it would have been "Now come on, grow up and sort it out like big boys and girls"

It is now

"ok then sir/maam I shall pass the problem concerning your neighbour and continuous antisocial behaviour that you recieve from them to control room for resourcing"

(some cases the above is just but for 99% id say not)

The upshot of the above is the NEED for PCSO's - where police wouldnt have dealt with it at all, the govt say you have to and as a result pcso's are bought into the world.

Imo anyway (just woken up from a night shift so if it doesnt make sense, you know what to do :diablo: )