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C of A vs Permit to fly

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  • AvgasDinosaur
    115/145 Nectar of the Sky
    • Jan 2007
    • 306

    C of A vs Permit to fly

    I'm sorry if this has been covered already but I cant find it using search.
    As I understand it for a British registered aircraft (G-xxxx) to be used for hire and reward flights it must have a C of A. This includes flying school aircraft used by students and flying club aircraft hired or rented to members for payment.
    How do The Tiger Club use their Turbulents (PTZ, PVZ, RGZ, RMZ and RNZ) which are all (according to G-INFO) on Permits to Fly?
    This is in no way an implied criticism of that august body, I am just curious.
    Thanks in anticipation.
    Be lucky
    David
    Its not dripping oil ! She is marking her territory
    I may be getting older but I refuse to grow up
  • Propstrike
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Mar 2004
    • 4002

    #2
    Possibly if the organistaion is a non-profit making club, then as a member you acquire a stake in the capital assets ( aeroplanes) and fly them as though it is a share.

    I understand the maximum number permited in a group ( by law) is 20. Perhaps as a member you are allocated a particular Turb? Just guessing.

    Comment

    • Stampe
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Aug 2004
      • 35

      #3
      There is a dispensation in the ANO allowing the rental of single seat aircraft below 910 kg weight.Been there for years.You wouldn,t get rich doing it though and here is the relevant extract

      Public transport and aerial workgeneral rules
      157. (1) Subject to the provisions of this article and articles 158 to 163, aerial work means any purpose (other than public transport) for which an aircraft is flown if valuable consideration is given or promised in respect of the flight or the purpose of the flight.

      (2) If the only such valuable consideration consists of remuneration for the services of the pilot the flight shall be deemed to be a private flight for the purposes of Part 3 of this Order.

      (3) Subject to the provisions of this article and articles 158 to 163, an aircraft in flight shall for the purposes of this Order be deemed to fly for the purpose of public transport



      (a) if valuable consideration is given or promised for the carriage of passengers or cargo in the aircraft on that flight;

      (b) if any passengers or cargo are carried gratuitously in the aircraft on that flight by an air transport undertaking, not being persons in the employment of the undertaking (including, in the case of a body corporate, its directors and, in the case of the CAA, the members of the CAA), persons with the authority of the CAA either making any inspection or witnessing any training, practice or test for the purposes of this Order, or cargo intended to be used by any such passengers as aforesaid, or by the undertaking; or

      (c) for the purposes of Part 3 of this Order (other than articles 19(2) and 20(2)), if valuable consideration is given or promised for the primary purpose of conferring on a particular person the right to fly the aircraft on that flight (not being a single-seat aircraft of which the maximum total weight authorised does not exceed 910 kg) otherwise than under a hire-purchase or conditional sale agreement.


      So................................................ ....... the crucial statement is in 3c (not being a single-seat aircraft of which the maximum total weight authorised does not exceed 910 kg) which implies the the flight is not public transport and therefore a Transport Cof A is not required even though the aircraft is hired.
      Last edited by Stampe; 19th January 2007, 19:41.

      Comment

      • Mark A
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Feb 2006
        • 97

        #4
        Weren't the Turbulents factory built?

        I seem to remember seeing them being built by Rollasons at Shoreham/Croydon, possibly under licence from Druine.
        The Ardem engine was a type certificated VW conversion IIRC. This could have given them some kind of grandfather rights if they were later orphaned from their type certificates.

        Comment

        • Ewan Hoozarmy
          Not a spotter!
          • Jan 2004
          • 604

          #5
          ISTR the Tiger Club has/had a CAA Exemption from the relevant ANO Article, Article 11 I think, bought in when the law changed sometime in the 70s/80s? There are several conditions and I believe one of those conditions is that the aircraft are series production built - which is why they are all Rollason Turbulents....

          I think they are the only club offering single seat aircraft for hire

          Comment

          • rbcondor
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2004
            • 7

            #6
            Factory built microlights operate on a permit to fly and can be hired for instruction (either paid or unpaid) and for solo use.

            Comment

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