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By: - 15th August 2007 at 20:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
John I strongly urge you to look at Horizons GenerationX VFR scenery instead of Just Flights Real Scenery. It really is far superior in terms of the clarity and colouration...the 'Real Scenery' looks green and drab next to GenX's vibrant [a little too much in places] colours and contrast...it also come with a far higher 5m terrain mesh.
They're both 1.2m per pixel resolution, but again Horizon's scenery stays sharp at much lower altitudes - Just flights seem over compressed.
When you fly out of a VFR scenery area it returns to the MS default [I guarantee you'll get the full set when you try it though] and your settings should be set to match the terrain mesh and texture resolution of the new scenery.
The installation adds the areas the scenery library, so it's all very easy.
Have a look here www.horizonsimulation.com be sure to look at the forums esp. the screen shots to see just how good GenX is.
Any other questions - just ask;)
By: - 16th August 2007 at 10:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for this. I'll do as you say. However, just one more thing. Do you think Horizon helps or hinders the simulation?
Despite SP1 I find I still have to have my sliders on the left to get a decent simulation and frankly don't think they can go much further and leave me with anything to look at!
So what attracted me to VFR Real Scenery was that they claim an increase in frame rates over the default.
Best wishes
John Y
By: - 16th August 2007 at 15:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi John - it certainly will help with frame rates and the main reason being there is no Autogen, though you will still see landmark features and airport buildings.
Having said that even with Autogen [you can add a lot of custom FS9 scenery and Horizon are going to release full Autogen for their VFR scenery] the frame rates are still generally better than the MS default.
My PC is mid range and I can run above the recomended settings when using photoscenery and maintain fluid frame rates at all times.
There is a demo area which I will edit in the link to, when I find it.
Ok here it is - just under 300mb so I hope your not on dial-up
http://www.visualflight.info/products/vfr-generation-x/demo/view
You can add the 3D demo to this as well to test it with some Autogen...and I will post some screenshots in that part of the forum later showing how good GenX is.
Here's some shots John
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1150763&postcount=27
By: - 16th August 2007 at 16:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi Red Line
I tried what you advised and am most impressed. You shouldn't have gone to all the trouble with uploading the video for me. Yes I am on broadband so it was no problem. I saw the Horizon demonstration video through the link you provided and I must say it seems wonderful.
After a long time adjusting settings and getting a new video card I've just got my FSX working nice and smoothly using a maximum 20 fps and with scenery complexity and autogen both set to 'normal' so I can't really complain. However good the default scenery looks though, it's still very graphic if you see what I mean, so I've decided to buy the full set of Horizon discs which are on special offer at present.
By the way, congratulations on your photos. They look great don't they.
Now all I have to do is get Horizon to sell the stuff to me. The first time I've tried they messed me about having me repeat my personal details over and over again. I've written to them about it and hopefully I'll get a helpful reply. I'll let you know how I get on.
By the way, its just occurred to me. I've had SP 1 downloaded for some time and it's showing in my list of programs as a subprogram to FSX but it's never seemed to have made a lot of difference to the simulation. Certainly nowhere near what PC Pilot would have us believe. I'm just wondering. Do you have to switch it on somewhere to activate it?
Best wishes
John Y
By: - 16th August 2007 at 19:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi John - I'm very happy to help where I can with what I know. Sorry to here you've had problems with Horizon's site - these things happen from time-to-time...I'll contact an admin on their forum and see if he can offer some assistance. I'm sure you'll find it worthwhile when you receive the scenery.
Be sure to register the product then and download and install any updates for the area/s you buy - there is at least one for each volume that corrects/patches some issues.
Sp1 is a strange beast - for some it's worked near miracles, for others it's added more problems. My experience is generally positive....it certainly improves performance esp. in default scenery area's with lots of Autogen - however it does seem to cause some issues with terrain texture loading, leading to a few more blurries when using photoscenery.
Overall it's worth having it over default FSX and SP2 [DX10] will have further fixes for everyone...oh and if you installed it then it's working - you cannot enable/disable it, bar removing it completely.
Be sure to join the Horizon forums - it a great little community.
Regards - redline/mark
By: - 17th August 2007 at 10:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi there
I managed to order the whole package in the end. It was a good offer and should be with me in a few days. The problem was with my name. The insist on having the invoicing details the same as those on your credit card statement. The problem is that my credit card says J C, the statement says John C and I introduced myself to them as John Y.
It's strange, but I cottoned on to the tip in PC Pilot about reducing the maximum frame rate to flatten out the peaks and troughs and the possibility that the glass cockpits play havoc with frame rates. I altered my maximum down to twenty and have flown the Cessna 172SP that doesn't have the glass cockpit and the frame rate stayed at a steady 20 virtually throughout the flight which I must say was nice and smooth even when landing and taxiing. The playback was very smooth too without all the jumping about the aircraft had done before. It was almost as smooth as FS9 which I must admit I do like still simply because it's so very efficient.
I'm hoping with the new scenery in FSX, without the autogen I'll be able to increase the road traffic and maybe a few other things like shadows and such! And get the whole thing working more like FS9 but of course with the advantages of FSX. Probably going overboard now!
Thanks for your help mate
Best wishes
John Y
By: - 17th August 2007 at 13:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
John - I too have found setting a 'limited' frame rate works far better than an 'unlimited' one, despite the fact that Locking it [to any number] knocks around 10fps off your average. In open country running with no limit is fine but as soon as airports or other frame sapping objects come into view the massive peaking and toughing is very annoying. I have mine set a 25 currently and that's where it stays, so I'm happy.
I think there is an issue with 'glass cockpits' post SP1 is there not? which causes a massive reduction in performance.
I've been able to turn most things up since using GenX - I have aircraft settings on max with full shadows - I have water on max which looks stunning and use ground shadows too. The only thing that really bogs me down is 'bloom' it does look nice but it saps too many frames. Traffic I leave on default at present.
It will take a little time experimenting again to find out what works best for your setup
Please join the Horizon forums as well - it's a great friendly community but could do with some more members.
Regards - Mark
By: - 18th August 2007 at 11:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Horizon
Hi Mark
Thanks for your reply. I can't wait. I was hoping it would come today but I suppose I'll get it on Monday now. It's really fired my imagination and did my golf yesterday no good at all! My companions made light of it but mainly due to me we managed to come last in a competition where the three of us playing as a team would have thought we would have a strong chance of winning.
Yes, no longer using the glass cockpit (I do like them though I must admit) I suppose I could turn my frame rate limit back up to 25. I'll check to see if there's any difference on my set up. As you say, if you get the frame rate acceptable and more or less staying at that rate it's got to be better.
I can see I'll have to esperiment with the water. At present I've got it turned off even though my flying is very oten over the Bristol Channel.
I suppose I'll see when I get it but I really hope the Horizon photos allow the moving public road traffic and airport movement of traffic etc which I find is a real feature of FSX over FS9.
Yes I'll join the Horizon Forum as you suggest as I suspect it's where a lot of tips are available much the same as this one.
I'm hoping I will be able to put the whole lot of discs on my computer. I know Horizon mention they can be used individually but I can't see me being satisfied with that performance every time I want to fly especially as most of the time, as I suspect everyone does, I'll want to fly outside the area one disc covers.
I have a 120 GB hard disc devoted entirely to Flight simulation so it should be alright. It contains the two main programs FSX & FS9 and all the flight records which I cut and paste from My Documents on the C disc. I've tried to save those directly but for some reason the save option in the FS program doesn't want to know where it actually is!!
The advantage though is it means I can delete the logbook and all the pilot records from the Program folder. Since I've been doing that, I've only had one little screen crash which I was able to recover from without having to re-install the program. It was my fault really. I turned off the simulator, saw my printer was still on, and turned that off too before the simulator had finished closing. I've found that it's fatal trying to do something else while FSX is either closing or opening. It almost always results in a crash. Doesn't really suit my impatient nature.
Tell me Mark. Do you, and in your experience others, go through the business of calculating fuel requirements, getting it pumped in, boarding passengers and all the pre-flight routines? Or do you, like me, have somewhat limited time, just go through the flight planner and get up there and go somewhere?
I'll let you know how I get on.
Best wishes
John Y
By: - 18th August 2007 at 13:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
John - I'm no hardcore sim flyer and therefore admit I do not do things 100% properly or spend much time setting up flight and going through checklists...I just love exploring the English and Welsh countryside in slow light aircraft, such as the default C172, the Just Flight Tiger Moth and Flying Club selection.
What I do spend some time doing is setting up the weather to give interesting sky’s and flying conditions - I also favour morning or evening flights with a low sun, which adds lot of atmosphere...it really is a case of each to their own and you can get a lot of pleasure from FSX in so many ways.
The full set of GenX will take around 60gb of HDD space :eek: which is a lot and like you I was not content just to have a small portion. I started with two areas’ of the third volume, but when I got hold of all three volumes I put the whole lot on. It's great to think you can take off anywhere in Eng or Wales and go where ever you want...I've had it for three months now but there's still many places I've yet to visit.
Download the new installer before you begin http://www.horizonsimulation.com/downloads.htm cancel the one on the disk when it starts and run the new one and follow the instructions - then register and download and apply the updates then I would recommend a defrag.
Hope all goes well,
Regards - Mark
By: - 23rd August 2007 at 11:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Horizon
Hi Mark
It took all the afternoon to install the three discs and download the updates.
There were a few problems especially with volume 3. It started well enough but mid way through I got a message that a file was corrupted so I started again. When I got it the second time at the same place I told it to 'ignore'. On the second disc I had the same problem and on the 3rd there were several files missing or currupted. By this time I was truly getting a bit fed up to say the least but I carried on having instructed the thing to 'ignore'and finally the discs were loaded.
I had some idea that possibly the updates would correct what was wrong, so I did those....after a fashion. Frankly I found the method of downloading confusing and to a computer illiterate like me.. well it was a wonder I finally got them.
When I looked at the disc for defragmenting I could hardly believe the amount of red. It seemed to fill the whole disc. So I spent the rest of the evening de-fragging. Being wise after the event, perhaps I should have done that after downloading each disc.
I've tried to put the settings in the way Horizon have instructed in the booklet but frankly the frame rates were disastrous and all over the place from 3 up! So I've turned off the water and reduced some of the other settings but kept the frame rates to 30 and that has helped.
The one problem I have left is the flight is distinctly jerky when taxiing and taking off and when taxiing after landing. It's a little jerky also when manouvering in the air. I've kept a careful look at the frame rates since the alterations I made to the settings and it doesn't seem to be that as they keep mostly between 20 & 30. I'm wondering if it's the hard disc. I don't think it should be as there's 26GB of space left on it and it's clean from the de-fragging but I don't know what else it could be. Have you any ideas?
If it is the hard disc I could, if pressed, put the whole lot on to my 3rd disc which has 250GB. I would then swap the stuff on that (mainly photographs and records) back to the present disc. Would it be possible to cut and paste the flight simulator transfer to the bigger disc or would it have to be a complete re-installation? Frankly, that would be a nightmare.
The scenery is nice I must admit and better than Just Flight. I didn't realize there were so many bits and pieces of Islands and stuff in the Bristol Channel. The one thing I really don't like is the truly bare nature of the airports and Bristol with a square plateu perched just in front of the runway looks ridiculous so I have the feeling that I'll be using this stuff only for sight seeing and be back to the normal FSX or FS9 for flying journeys if you see what I mean.
Well, that's all in the latest installment.
Best wishes
John Y
By: - 23rd August 2007 at 16:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi John
First thing would be to copy your post to the Horizon forums where there are more people to assist with tech issues, as you raise a few points...but I will deal with them the best I can here anyway.
First it does sound like your installation CD's are flawed as you should never get corrupted files unless their scratched or dirty. By skipping files you could well be missing data, that may only come to light when you fly over the area's associated with them. Pain though it is I think you should contact Horizon for a replacement disk/s.
The defragmentation is quite normal with any large install and is an issue with the way Windows places files rather than the product - I do find it baffling when you have large amounts of contiguous space that you end up with such a mess.
Stuttering does seem to afflict some single core machines [not sure of your spec john] with large amounts of photoscenery [any brand] this does seem to be an issue with FSX itself esp. post SP1 and is being looked into. Some who experienced extreme stutters have eliminated them by moving to dual core - obviously not everyone is able to do this, so one work-around is to disable area's in the scenery library you don't intend to fly over, this is not ideal but may help for the time being...you could also try removing SP1.
I think having FSX and GenX on it own hard drive [or it own partition] separate to Windows is the way to go - it help ensure the data is contiguous and stays that way…this could also go a long way to eliminate stuttering. I now have an FSX drive and find it’s working far better than having it on a volume with Windows and other programs. There are others on the Horizon forum that are more knowledgeable in transferring FSX/GenX to another drive and getting to work [it’s not something I’ve done] …But if you do have faulty disks it maybe worth waiting and doing a full reinstall – I know that’s not an exciting prospect though.
The default airports in FSX do come with the anomalies you pointed out – this is due to them not matching the highly accurate terrain mesh supplied by Horizon…the cliff you see are the egde of the ‘flattens’ MS puts around all it’s airports. There are some great people on the Horizon forums who have recreated some airfields with more accuracy, better buildings and a ‘flatten’ that blends seamlessly with GenX.
UK2000 http://www.uk2000scenery.com/ do an increasing number of stunning replacement airports inc. Bristol.
So, sorry you’ve had these problems John – most of these problems can be overcome or improved…and despite the shaky it really is worth the effort.
PS if your seeing lots of little bits of land [like ribbons] in the water a moddified 'terrain.cfg' is available from www.avsim.com [you need to register first ]that elimininates this.
Or drop me a mail at mark.lizabdeyatbtinternet.com - replace the at with @...and I'll mail it to you.
By: - 23rd August 2007 at 17:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Horizon
Hi Mark
Thanks for this.
I have a disc dedicated to flight simulation already. It's 120 GB which leaves 111 GB workable space and there is 26 GB of space left on it, which is roughly 26%. I would have thought it's enough. Yes, I haven't got a dual core processor it's true.
My FSX installation works perfectly with reasonable settings. eg Normal Scenery Complexity, Normal Autogen, Enough Traffic to make it interesting and others that are not all to the far right. And I have no stutters with that at all. It's as smooth as FS9.
Before I contact Horizon about the possibility of faulty discs which I would have thought is most unlikely, and I suspect they would argue about, I think now I know how to do it, I'll uninstall the complete program and try to install it again one volume at a time, then defrag. It could have been me leaving the broadband open!
But before I do any of that, I must try to get rid of the stutters so I'll do as you say and ask for advice from the forum and possibly the Horizon Technical people.
I'll let you know how I get on. At least I'm still flying and I did have a nice trip using Horizon through the Lake District this afternoon in spite of the stutters.
Best wishes.
John Y
By: - 23rd August 2007 at 19:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Your hard drive should be fine in that case John and I think you would gain nothing but hassle by moving it over to the bigger drive.
If the installation fails at the same point again then I would say the disk are certainly at fault and would confidently say Horizon would be more than willing to exchange them...they are a most helpful bunch.
There is a large thread on the Horizon forum regarding stutters and there is an experimental anti stutter tool you can download there too - it has worked for some...other than that all you can do is make sure your PC is working as well as it can - updating drivers, turning off anti virus, disabling services.
All the best...Mark.
By: - 27th August 2007 at 17:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Horizon VFR Scenery
Hi Mark
Thanks for your advice.
In fact I had a new Graphics Card recently and an upgrade (the new 250GB disc) and extra fan, then re-installed the whole of FSX, SPI and then revised the settings which has resulted in FSX working perfectly so I don't want to interfere too much with what I have now, especially since I have had to adjust the graphics card slightly to correlate it with my photographic printer settings and screen.
I really don't like turning off the anti virus knowing that in the background broadband, even though I'm off-line, is still inviting everything in! The amount of stuff I get in the virus vault is quite enough without having it piling in awaiting entry when I eventually go on-line!
So, what I've done today is completely uninstalled the Horizon scenery, including the downloaded up-dates and the lists in the FSX scenery program. As far as I can see there's nothing left of it at all, and the space left on my dedicated disc is the same as it was before I put Horizon on. So now I'm clean.
Unfortunately we have family visitors this week (the pay-back for living in a holiday town) so it'll be at least next week before I can put it all back on. I'll let you know how I get on with that. I'm sure now I know what's involved, especially with the updates, it'll go on nicely this time providing there's nothing wrong with the discs
Still no news from Horizon though. I would have thought I would have received something other than an acknowledgement from them by now.
By the way, perhaps I'm wrong, but I feel I detect from your wording you are feeling somewhat guilty after recommending Horizon. If that's the case. Don't. I was halfway convinced that ordering the Just Flight product was the wrong thing to do, that's why I sought advice in the first place. I just wanted occasionally to be able to fly over ground I can recognise. If it wasn't for that I would be perfectly satisfied with FSX scenery. In fact I think it's marvelous. Just not real, that's all.
So it's no harm done really if the Horizon scenery never works out for me. I'm not sure that the lack of proper airports isn't going to get on my nerves anyway. I just wish they had made that clear in their pre-purchase sales literature as that would have definitely put me off it.
I'll be in touch in a week or too to let you know what's transpired.
Best wishes.
John Y
By: - 30th August 2007 at 12:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Horizon
Hi Mark
It's me again. Horizon have had real problems with their hardware apparently and haven't been getting messages.
However, I finally managed to get into their forums today and also received replies to my queries directly.
From what I read in the forums which seem to be full of criticism, not necessarily of the product, but mainly of the installation and operation problems people suffer, I have decided to take them up on their kind offer to accept the return of the product for credit.
Frankly, when I get on to the flight simulator its because I want the challenge of flying an aeroplane, over nice scenery, the more authentic the better of course, but nevertheless flying. I certainly don't want to be spending hours trying to mend problems that from the forums appear to be unmendable - the stutters being one of only many, such as missing bridges, lakes over the lake district missing or too many, virtually no airport scenery etc. etc.
From the forums it would appear to me that Horizon's customers are not really happy bunnies, and frankly, I don't want to be one of them, so as I've said I'm opting out.
Incidentally, the Americans seem to have come up with a great idea for USA scenery, so if I'm still on this earth when it comes out for the British Isles as well as the USA, I might try that.
All the best Mark and thanks for your patience.
John Y
By: - 30th August 2007 at 15:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi John - really sorry to hear of your disappointment with GenX. Yes there is some consternation regarding some of the features that are taking longer than expected...night lighting and water masks [which are almost with us]. There are also some people who suffer from performance and stuttering issues, but if it happens with Horizon scenery it will happen with Just Flight or MegasceneryX and is generally a hardware limitation or something within the software environment of a particular set-up.
The scenery uses the standard FSX airports so your seeing only what is already within FSX - turning 'Scenery Complexity' up will add more buildings if you have it set to sparse or you can add some stunning Free or Payware add-on airports/fields that are far more accurate and populated than the ones MS provide.
Having been a member of the Horizon forums for several months I can honestly say most people seem to have a very positive experience with GenX [despite some of the negative threads] and certainly a far better experience than you can have with the scenery MS give us as a representation of our country:( .
I personally find it wonderful and have suffered very few problems and I don't have a monster PC - I have spent some time tweaking to get the best results I can, but this tends is a part of the whole FS experience anyway.
If you can stand to John, give it a little more time - try to iron out some of your issues with some help from others [myself included] as I really feel it's worth a little perseverance.
By: - 30th August 2007 at 17:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Horizon
Hi Mark
I accept all you say and Paul Chaney at Horizon did kindly offer to help me with the installation too but in the end I decided that frankly I didn't want the bother, so this afternoon I've sent the whole lot back to them.
I do quite like the idea of real world scenery so I'll keep my eyes open including on Horizon because I do agree with you that eventually maybe they'll iron out all the niggles and we'll get a product that works for virtually everyone. Then maybe I'll try again.
Best wishes
John Y
Posts: 113
By: John Y - 15th August 2007 at 13:58
I am on the point of ordering the first two volumes of the above but before I do thought I would ask if any of you have it already, and if so, what you think of it please.
I also have two specific questions; (a) What happens if I fly from a place inside the scenery range say London to a place outside it, say Manchester. Does the default scenery take over at the border or does the whole thing go blank?
(b) Does the VFR scenery automatically replace the default scenery or do you have to move the existing water and scenery settings to the far left when flying in the area covered by VFR Real Scenery and then back to their normal settings when outside that area?
General comments and thoughts on the matter will also be greatly appreciated please.
John Y