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  • Newforest
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Apr 2005
    • 8887

    Southend Airport progress?

    Any news of expansion at Southend following the purchase by Stobarts?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stobart_Group
    http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.83 times!
  • Thames Gateway
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Dec 2004
    • 46

    #2
    Yes much progress, much more to do according to their website. I think they are holding their breath for Wednesday afternoon's decision by the planning committee on Southend Council.

    Comment

    • FrequentFlyer
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • May 2009
      • 63

      #3
      According to a local paper the southend airport expansion seems likely to be approved

      http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/4850..._for_approval/
      My favourite airlines:

      1. Singapore Airlines
      2. Air New Zealand
      3. British Airways

      Comment

      • rdc1000
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jan 2000
        • 1396

        #4
        Lots happening, much of it put in place before Stobart took over. Much of it badly informed and creating a massive white elephant.

        Comment

        • Sky High
          Always Hopeful
          • Oct 2009
          • 5003

          #5
          Do you mean that if and when the expansion is completed it will be a white elephant?
          Last edited by Deano; 25th June 2011, 21:34. Reason: CoC Rule 15
          What really matters is what you do with what you have.

          SKY HIGH

          Comment

          • rdc1000
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2000
            • 1396

            #6
            Not necessarily the runway expansion which will bring benefits for the maintenance business which underpins the Airport's business currently.

            But they are investing huge and unecessary sums of money in the new railway station and associated terminal in the hope it will attract airlines. It's like the Field of Dreams, i.e. "if you build it, they will come", but it doesn't work like that. They are unlikely to attract large scale ops to cover the costs associated with the new terminal (putting the station costs to one side as it will act as a parkway to London also), and therefore will cripple their business for no need. Furthermore, any airline which chooses to use them will want low charges to start with at least, but again that doesn't help cover the cost of the development. They'd have been better off refurbishing the terminal (if at all) and continuing to try and attract a carrier, oly once you had an established basis would you want to think about building.

            Therefore the white elephant comment is regarding building something that you don't need, and which may act as a barrier to attracting the very airlines it is built for, due to a desire to fund it through route development.
            Last edited by Deano; 25th June 2011, 21:34. Reason: CoC Rule 15

            Comment

            • Sky High
              Always Hopeful
              • Oct 2009
              • 5003

              #7
              Now I follow. And your comment that it would be a white elephant seems entirely justified. I think there are similar debates going on about Manston and a possible extension of the new fast-rail links in Kent. But Manston has failed twice, I think, in the last 10 years trying to operate passenger flights to Europe and to the USA.
              Last edited by Deano; 25th June 2011, 21:34. Reason: CoC Rule 15
              What really matters is what you do with what you have.

              SKY HIGH

              Comment

              • rdc1000
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2000
                • 1396

                #8
                Absolutely the same thing. Southend has tried hard to attract services too for a number of years, but has failed on the whole, with the exception of the Jersey flights by BE. The airlines don't want to go there for a reason.
                Last edited by Deano; 25th June 2011, 21:35. Reason: CoC Rule 15

                Comment

                • 27vet
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Nov 2009
                  • 2698

                  #9
                  I ferried a 727 to Southend for maintenance once or twice. Seem to remember the runway was fairly short. Is this the reason? In that case they should lengthen the runways as the UK seems to be in need of capacity, although I see on Google Earth that there is not much room.
                  Last edited by Deano; 25th June 2011, 21:35. Reason: CoC Rule 15
                  sigpicHindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

                  Comment

                  • rdc1000
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 1396

                    #10
                    Yes, they have runway issues. The runway is roughly 1600m, although the TORA/TODA/LDA are all well below that too. The declared distances are affected by issues such as a road and railway adjoining the site, which causes problems for the RESAs.

                    This makes it too short for Ryanair, who's minimum requirement is a bit higher. It is adequate for Flybe, who looked at the Airport for a wider range of services, but they haven't progressed that line. They have had charter services in the past, including services to Malta, so it shouldn't be a complete barrier to attracting services.
                    Last edited by Deano; 25th June 2011, 21:35. Reason: CoC Rule 15

                    Comment

                    • Thames Gateway
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Dec 2004
                      • 46

                      #11
                      Why would they want ryanair - they are well known for driving a hard bargain and then leaving once start up deals have evaporated. The inability for ryanair is actually a selling point for the airport, as other carriers will be able to develop routes at Southend without the threat of ryanair moving in and nicking their hard developed business (defensibility).

                      I'm also sure that most potential airlines can clearly see the advantages of having the terminal right by the rail station to London, with industry leading 'plane to train' times.

                      rdc1000 - the road has not caused a 'RESA problem' for a few years now, except to road traffic!

                      Comment

                      • rdc1000
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 1396

                        #12
                        Ryanair would perhaps be on the list because they look for airports which fit certain criteria.

                        And the airlines we spoke to about southend weren't interested, station or no station.
                        Last edited by Deano; 25th June 2011, 21:36. Reason: CoC Rule 15

                        Comment

                        • Old Fart
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Aug 2003
                          • 1005

                          #13
                          Southend Borough Council voted on the proposed extention of Southend Airports runway today, the vote was 14 to 3 in favour of the work to goahead.


                          However the Govenment have called the plans in and the final say will be with John Denham, how impartial will he be, given that he was formerly a campaigner for Friends of the Earth?
                          Pass the remote

                          Comment

                          • Gooney Bird
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Nov 2005
                            • 493

                            #14
                            It's a step in the right direction.

                            Fingers crossed that it will get the go ahead!

                            Bear in mind John Dedman won't be in office for much longer, hopefully!
                            Last edited by Deano; 25th June 2011, 21:36. Reason: CoC Rule 15

                            Comment

                            • Old Fart
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2003
                              • 1005

                              #15
                              With any luck he will be out,

                              Thing is should he rush it through and say no could Stobart's call a judicial review, as an ex-FoE campaigner and with FoE's views on airport expantion well known surely this puts his position as the guy with the casting vote is serious question.

                              Can he really be fair,
                              Pass the remote

                              Comment

                              • rdc1000
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2000
                                • 1396

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Gooney Bird View Post

                                Bear in mind John Dedman won't be in office for much longer, hopefully!
                                No, but if he's replaced by a conservative, their Aviation policy is more penal let's not forget, especially in relation to the London region.

                                Originally posted by Old Fart View Post
                                With any luck he will be out,

                                Thing is should he rush it through and say no could Stobart's call a judicial review, as an ex-FoE campaigner and with FoE's views on airport expantion well known surely this puts his position as the guy with the casting vote is serious question.

                                Can he really be fair,
                                I'd have thought they may have a case to take it to the High Court and then potentially through JR if they felt it had been influenced unfairly by personal opinion.

                                Comment

                                • Thames Gateway
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2004
                                  • 46

                                  #17
                                  Glad to say that that the runway extension has now been passed by the Government:
                                  http://http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/5072078.Southend_Airport_expansion_gets_go_ahead_f rom_Government/

                                  Progress on the rail station here:
                                  http://http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/5070213.Airport_station_is_taking_shape/

                                  An interesting couple of years coming up methinks.

                                  Comment

                                  • Old Fart
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Aug 2003
                                    • 1005

                                    #18
                                    Its been a bad two days for the tree huggers of Southend, today the airport, Yesterday they were orderd off a bit of land they had set up a camp on to block a roadwiding scheme the courts orderd them off and told them to pay the councils courts costs

                                    The number of mistruths being spread was amazing, the rail station that is under construction was not a rail station but a gantry crane... bit of a problem as the Southend line has overhead cables! Flights would be every 5 mins in and out, flight would be at only 400ft over Leigh on Sea (a few miles from the airport!) the list is endless...




                                    Below is an article from Longpier.com (the bit in bold is the view of the Anti Lobby!)


                                    The expansion of Southend Airport CAN go ahead, according to a senior government official.

                                    The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government John Denham has said the plans, which include extension of the runway to accomodate bigger planes, will not be referred to a public inquiry and therefore work can begin. 2 million people are expected to use the airport a year, once building has finished.

                                    Southend-on-Sea Borough Councils Development Control Committee approved the expansion plans on January 20.

                                    But the Councils decision was subject to an Article 14 direction issued a few days earlier which prevented work on the scheme from going ahead without Mr Denham's authorisation.

                                    That's now been given and Councillor Anna Waite, the Councils Executive Councillor for Planning and Transport, told longpier.com she was delighted at the news.

                                    I am extremely pleased the Secretary of State has vindicated the careful consideration given to this application by the Development Control Committee.

                                    It took a great deal of time and effort to produce the balanced report presented to the Committee which reflected the views expressed by the various interested parties.

                                    The airport expansion will bring not only travel opportunities but much needed jobs. This is a really big step in building a sound economic future for Southend and its residents.

                                    But press spokesman for SAEN - Stop Airport Expansion Now - Denis Walker told longpier.com:

                                    "This is a travesty of justice for the people of Southend".

                                    "There were three phases of consultation and in each case 75% or more of those who responded opposed the expansion"

                                    "It would appear those in authority are ignoring residents of Southend and Rochford. We will now do what we can, within the law, to oppose today's decision".
                                    Pass the remote

                                    Comment

                                    • Expressflight
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Feb 2006
                                      • 45

                                      #19
                                      Perhaps it's time for a bit of an update on the developments at SEN.
                                      The train station passenger footbridge was installed last weekend so it's starting to look something like a station at last, with completion anticipated for late summer.
                                      The new 90ft control tower steel structure has also gone up in the past couple of weeks and it should be structurally complete by the autumn.
                                      As far as the runway extension is concerned I believe SAEN are looking at the possibility of seeking Judicial Review of the SBC planing consent, based upon the recent LHR 3rd Runway Judgement. I'm doubtful that the LHR Judgement can be carried across to affect the SEN decision as the Judgement was largely as a result of the fact that the Government specifically excluded consideration of the 2008 Climate Change Act in its LHR consultation process. The SEN decision specifically included that Act as being 'a material consideration' in their deliberations. Whatever is the legal position it's a pity that the LHR Judgement has had the effect of encouraging SAEN to take Court action.
                                      My view on the chances of SEN attracting a number of scheduled and charter airlines is somewhat more optimistic that that of rdc1000 and I should be interested to know who is the "we" he refers to in his post of 19th January 2010, in which he dismisses the prospect. The fact that RYR will not be in the running, due to the declared distances making 738 operations impracticable, is a plus for the new Head of Business Development, Jonny Rayner in his efforts to attract airlines. If the offering is right in terms of fees and charges and the infrastructure is in place to permit viable commercial operation of aircraft up to A319 and E195, plus the smaller 737 variants, I believe a number of airlines will be interested - indeed I know that a number are seriously so at the moment. Whether or not we shall have to wait for the runway extension and new terminal to be in operation before much of that interest is transformed into actual routes is another matter.

                                      Comment

                                      • Old Fart
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Aug 2003
                                        • 1005

                                        #20
                                        The Southend Lib Dems want further restrictions to be added to the lease to improve things for the residents particularly night closure of the airport. One major reason I will NOT be voting for them!

                                        SAEN (the protest group) its worth having a look at what they have to say forthemselfs...

                                        http://www.saen.org.uk/

                                        Below is a merger of the protesters points (in bold) and a reply from the pro lobby in normal text.

                                        A plane low over your house every 5 minutes at busy times.
                                        Not true the airport apron is not big enough to cope with such a volume of traffic aircraft would be backed up and a stack larger than Heathrows would need to be set up off the coast. The airport have said flight would be roughly every 15 minutes.

                                        Weak restrictions on night flights.
                                        The Airport currently has permission for 915 this will now DECREASE to 120 night flights a month.
                                        And they are not happy with that they want a total ban on night flights.

                                        A huge increase in noise and air pollution.
                                        Modern jets engines are far more economic; clean and quieter than the Boeing 707 & 727 type of aircraft these no longer fly passengers

                                        Even more traffic on our congested roads.
                                        Yes there will be more cars but this will be spred throughout the day. There would be far more if a retail park or housing estate were to be built

                                        Eastwoodbury Lane closed.
                                        No not true its being diverted to meet up with Nutsuda Way Southend just by RBS.

                                        A number of people losing their homes.
                                        The homes are owned by the airport yes the people will have to move out but they will be offered new homes.

                                        The value of everyone elses homes falling, putting even more people into negative equity.
                                        Not true many estate agents say house price would rise do the proximity of the airport and its rapid links with main land Europe.

                                        Very few new jobs being created
                                        An expanded airport will need more people to operate it, then there is the proposed extension to business parks in the local area and a new business park.

                                        A decline in the local economy.
                                        Southampton saw an increase in the local economy as did Luton so why would Southend be different.

                                        Passenger forecasts are unrealistic, making the airport expansion an expensive waste of everyones time.
                                        Who said, yes there has been a decline during the recession but as the country recovers these number will return and pass pervious totals, as more money becomes available.

                                        Public Safety Zones appear not to be taken seriously.
                                        Why would the airport do this they are by law to enforce the safety zones failure to do so would result in a heavy fine or closure, this is one reason the church wall is being dismantled and the gates were erected at Eastwoodburry Lane.


                                        An increase in harmful greenhouse gas emissions.
                                        Like noted previously modern jet engines are far cleaner than the previous generation, all engine designers now take the issue very seriously and design the engine to run at peek efficiently and as cleanly as possibleA







                                        The weather is looking pants for Saturday but if its not too bad the camera will come out its bag for a few photos so those that want to see how hork is progressinbg can do so.
                                        Pass the remote

                                        Comment

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