Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Pilot error blamed for Emirates near disaster at Melbourne Airport

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • steve rowell
    Expat Geordie
    • Apr 2003
    • 13281

    Pilot error blamed for Emirates near disaster at Melbourne Airport

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/pil...-1225811893555
    Best Regards Steve
  • Newforest
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Apr 2005
    • 8888

    #2
    Wonder where the pilots are now?
    http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.83 times!

    Comment

    • 27vet
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Nov 2009
      • 2699

      #3
      Once again, so much for the exhaustively tested multi-redundant airplane.
      sigpicHindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

      Comment

      • 27vet
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Nov 2009
        • 2699

        #4
        Originally posted by Newforest View Post
        Wonder where the pilots are now?
        Be afraid, be very afraid, they could be in your back garden
        sigpicHindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

        Comment

        • steve rowell
          Expat Geordie
          • Apr 2003
          • 13281

          #5
          Originally posted by Newforest View Post
          Wonder where the pilots are now?
          They're driving Camels across the Dubai desert...Captain at the front co-pilot at the rear...no computers to muck up
          Best Regards Steve

          Comment

          • 27vet
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Nov 2009
            • 2699

            #6
            Originally posted by steve rowell View Post
            They're driving Camels across the Dubai desert...Captain at the front co-pilot at the rear...no computers to muck up
            The Dromedary being the single-engine version and the Bactrian being the twin-engined variant?
            sigpicHindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

            Comment

            • sabrenaut
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2008
              • 4

              #7
              I personally don't understand your glee with the unfortunate situation this crew now finds itself in. You must admit that they obviously only came to occupy those seats after many years (in the case of the captain, certainly) of hard won experience and after careful vetting by quite a selective hiring board at Emirates.

              They must have demonstrated more than ample aptitude and delivered many years of safe, professional service under varying and occasionally trying conditions in probably a slew of different types before their takeoff that day in Melbourne.

              That normally competent and conscientious crews can still somehow manage to sometimes "screw the pooch" so badly as to endanger lives should be a source of puzzlement, sure, or lead to calls for the circumstances to be thoroughly studied to find any possible systemic contributions, if any, to the errors--yes, these are appropriate reactions to a detremination of "pilot error" (and who expected any other verdict, really?). But to mock these men who've had years of good work cast aside to be branded by this one incident to the point their careers are essntially at an end (I certainly hope not) is terribly uncouth and classless.

              Especially when many on this forum are probably never exposed to anywhere near the level of continuous professional scrutiny in their own fileds that the gentlemen they diegn to denigrate endure (with a fair measure of professional pride, I can attest).

              Sorry, this has touched a nerve with me. These guys made an honest mistake but, unlike most other professions, they will probably not be allowed to profit, learn and grow from thier experience and continue to earn their keep. It is sad to add insult to this terrible injury.

              Comment

              • steve rowell
                Expat Geordie
                • Apr 2003
                • 13281

                #8
                Originally posted by sabrenaut View Post
                I personally don't understand your glee with the unfortunate situation this crew now finds itself in. You must admit that they obviously only came to occupy those seats after many years (in the case of the captain, certainly) of hard won experience and after careful vetting by quite a selective hiring board at Emirates.

                They must have demonstrated more than ample aptitude and delivered many years of safe, professional service under varying and occasionally trying conditions in probably a slew of different types before their takeoff that day in Melbourne.

                That normally competent and conscientious crews can still somehow manage to sometimes "screw the pooch" so badly as to endanger lives should be a source of puzzlement, sure, or lead to calls for the circumstances to be thoroughly studied to find any possible systemic contributions, if any, to the errors--yes, these are appropriate reactions to a detremination of "pilot error" (and who expected any other verdict, really?). But to mock these men who've had years of good work cast aside to be branded by this one incident to the point their careers are essntially at an end (I certainly hope not) is terribly uncouth and classless.

                Especially when many on this forum are probably never exposed to anywhere near the level of continuous professional scrutiny in their own fileds that the gentlemen they diegn to denigrate endure (with a fair measure of professional pride, I can attest).

                Sorry, this has touched a nerve with me. These guys made an honest mistake but, unlike most other professions, they will probably not be allowed to profit, learn and grow from thier experience and continue to earn their keep. It is sad to add insult to this terrible injury.
                I'm sure everyone agrees with your sentiments my friend as i do...but for Christ's sake lighten up...don't you recognise an attempt at humour when you come across it...this forum is a mixture of serious and humorous banter between like minded aviation enthusiasts and nobody is attempting to discredit these two professionals in any way shape or form
                Last edited by steve rowell; 22nd December 2009, 02:55.
                Best Regards Steve

                Comment

                • jethro15
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 525

                  #9
                  What I can't understand is why onboard systems didn't detect the error.

                  To my mind, and in it's simplest form, a zero fuel weight is the aircraft weight + payload . To this you add your fuel load to give you your Take-off weight. In this instance, the F/O entered a Take-off weight which was 100 tons less than it should have been.

                  Now, the onboard software knew the zero fuel weight. It also knew the fuel load. How come it didn't detect that the Take-off weight was way below the correct figure.

                  Standing by to be corrected.
                  Last edited by jethro15; 22nd December 2009, 10:55.
                  jethro
                  UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
                  http://www.jethros.org.uk/

                  e-mail: jethro.eu@gmail.com

                  Comment

                  • Dxb Driver
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • May 2006
                    • 34

                    #10
                    The report is purely factual, and is the "Interim" report, gents. The "Real" fireworks will come out in the final report, trust me on that account. The fact that the crew were not required by procedures at Emirates, to independently enter the figures into the computer, shows poor set of procedures on EK's part.

                    Also the slight fact that EK changed a swathe of procedures (on all fleets) after the accident, is in my books an admission that something on their part was at fault.

                    Emirates resigned (forced) the pilots to leave their jobs, which wouldn't happen in the real world!

                    Always easy to blame the pilots, eh!

                    DXB Driver

                    Comment

                    • Bmused55
                      Aaahh Emu!
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 11136

                      #11
                      Also, I'm sure I read that these poor pilots were fatigued, having only gotten minimal sleep between their last couple of flights before this one?
                      Last edited by Bmused55; 22nd December 2009, 13:02. Reason: spelling
                      Bmused55

                      Keep thy airspeed up, less the earth come from below and smite thee.

                      My Blog
                      My Designs

                      Comment

                      • PMN
                        PMN
                        PlaneObsessedBassPlayer
                        • Aug 2005
                        • 5594

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bmused55 View Post
                        Also, I'm sure I read that these poor pilots were fatigued, having only gotten minimal sleep betweel their last couple of flights before this one?
                        I'm sure I read somewhere they had a 2 or 3 day layover in Oz before flying back?!

                        Paul
                        My images on Flickr Jetphotos A.Net

                        Comment

                        • Bmused55
                          Aaahh Emu!
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 11136

                          #13
                          Might not have been enough to combat the time difference?
                          Bmused55

                          Keep thy airspeed up, less the earth come from below and smite thee.

                          My Blog
                          My Designs

                          Comment

                          • David2386
                            My new speed record
                            • Jul 2004
                            • 603

                            #14
                            Quick look of the report shows that the operating crew arrived in MEL @ 0613 local on the morning of 19th, 13hours after leaving DXB. They then departed again at 2230 local on 20th. That's fact, going by the report.


                            So say around 36 hours of rest, plenty if you work regular shifts in one time zone. But for globetrotting around the world, going east one trip and west the next...? I can imagine even the most well adjusted jetlagged folk's body clock would be in turmoil.
                            Google can answer lots of questions, ever tried it?

                            Comment

                            • 27vet
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Nov 2009
                              • 2699

                              #15
                              I know, that when I was a crew member, we made more mistakes when we were tired; furthermore, travelling frequently across time zones:

                              "Even more serious, the initiation and rate of growth of certain cancers is linked to disrupted circadian rhythms. Medical research now terms this previously unknown cause of cancer chronodisruption. It is now linked to the higher rates for certain cancers in night-shift workers, those who travel across numerous time zones for their work, and others whose age or lifestyle choices result in damage to the pineal glands ability to make melatonin."

                              Reference : Erren TC, et al. Light, timing of biological rhythms and chronodisruption in man. Naturwissenschaften, 2003;90:485-494.
                              sigpicHindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

                              Comment

                              • Bmused55
                                Aaahh Emu!
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 11136

                                #16
                                Originally posted by David2386 View Post
                                Quick look of the report shows that the operating crew arrived in MEL @ 0613 local on the morning of 19th, 13hours after leaving DXB. They then departed again at 2230 local on 20th. That's fact, going by the report.


                                So say around 36 hours of rest, plenty if you work regular shifts in one time zone. But for globetrotting around the world, going east one trip and west the next...? I can imagine even the most well adjusted jetlagged folk's body clock would be in turmoil.
                                Don't forget that there is paper work and pre flight planning to do, that can take a few hours all in. So not all of the 36 hours was spent sleeping.
                                Last edited by Bmused55; 22nd December 2009, 22:01.
                                Bmused55

                                Keep thy airspeed up, less the earth come from below and smite thee.

                                My Blog
                                My Designs

                                Comment

                                • steve rowell
                                  Expat Geordie
                                  • Apr 2003
                                  • 13281

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Bmused55 View Post
                                  Also, I'm sure I read that these poor pilots were fatigued, having only gotten minimal sleep between their last couple of flights before this one?
                                  They had only 2 hours sleep in the last 24 hours before the accident from what i'm told by my friend at Qantas
                                  Best Regards Steve

                                  Comment

                                  • PMN
                                    PMN
                                    PlaneObsessedBassPlayer
                                    • Aug 2005
                                    • 5594

                                    #18
                                    Hmm... To quote the article linked above:

                                    "Emirates head pilot Capt Alan Stealey said both the pilot and first officer of the damaged jet had said they were "well rested" before takeoff, after a 38-hour layover."

                                    38 hours sounds like a long enough rest to me, change of time zones or not.

                                    Paul
                                    My images on Flickr Jetphotos A.Net

                                    Comment

                                    • steve rowell
                                      Expat Geordie
                                      • Apr 2003
                                      • 13281

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by PMN View Post
                                      Hmm... To quote the article linked above:

                                      "Emirates head pilot Capt Alan Stealey said both the pilot and first officer of the damaged jet had said they were "well rested" before takeoff, after a 38-hour layover."

                                      38 hours sounds like a long enough rest to me, change of time zones or not.

                                      Paul
                                      Paul... ...that's a beat up by Emirates...apparently the Captain told people in the industry here that they'd both only had a couple of hours sleep prior to the accident...there was an article in one of the local papers here I'll see if i can find it
                                      Best Regards Steve

                                      Comment

                                      • PMN
                                        PMN
                                        PlaneObsessedBassPlayer
                                        • Aug 2005
                                        • 5594

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by steve rowell View Post
                                        Paul... ...that's a beat up by Emirates...apparently the Captain told people in the industry here that they'd both only had a couple of hours sleep prior to the accident...there was an article in one of the local papers here I'll see if i can find it
                                        Hmm... Well as there seem to be several conflicting stories here maybe we shouldn't speculate on this any further until we know the facts?

                                        Paul
                                        My images on Flickr Jetphotos A.Net

                                        Comment

                                        Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                        Collapse

                                         

                                        Working...
                                        X