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By: - 14th July 2001 at 14:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Ryanair aren't a bunch of idiots
I think you might just be being a bit harsh on Ryanair, there...
Ryanair ALWAYS fly from smaller airports, as they're cheaper (eg- London Stansted, Glasgow Prestwick, Frankfurt Hahn, Paris Beauvais). This makes sense for a low cost airline.
They're hardly a new airline, they've been operating for 16 years, with the 'low fares/no frills' launched 10 years ago - the first low fare airline in Europe. Anyway, they've been operating to Charleroi for 4 years, now.
Ryanair is, it claims, "&l;This continued expansion of Ryanair's route network will reinforce Ryanair's position as&r; the second largest airline in the UK, and by far and away Europe's largest low fares airline, bringing the total network to over 45 routes across 11 countries served with a fleet of 31 aircraft and 1,400 people." (source: www.ryanair.com)
Anyway, as far as comparing prices in adverts goes, there is no actual law that says you must compare like with like. No doubt the wording was something like 'you could save up to...'
Which is true.
cheers,
the Bhoy
By: - 15th July 2001 at 12:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Ryanair aren't a bunch of idiots
I think customers are clever enough to know what are they getting when they purchuse a ticket, but anyway I don´t reject the fact of Ryanair flying with two classes: Business for Sabena customers and tourist for Ryanair. The same thing happened with Virgin Express. Agressive entrance in the Belgium market and cooperation next.
By: - 15th July 2001 at 19:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ryanair still are a bunch of idiots.
In Belgium there's such a law. In fact, it was prohibited to compare two companies in advertisments untill 2 years ago. Ryanair was the first one who uses this kind of commerciandising.
They get the money from the government just to fly from that airport ... because the french-speaking gov. wants to make it difficult for the federal government who's controlling Brussels international. So it's not only Ryanair's fault, but still it would be fair of them to admit they are wrong ... again. They will have to do it, because the law is very strict in Belgium about such things. In fact, they could lose their license and there's nothing Ryanair or the French-speaking gov. could do about this. You should always remind that Sabena is NOT a low-fare airlinecompany, they admit this. So why still compare both? Than compare their prices with Virgin, Virgin Express etc.
Even if you think Ryanair is right, the belgian law system does not agree with Ryanair's advertisements. Flying from Belgian means you're obeing to belgian laws, not to some Irish laws.
Geforce - "Teamwork is essential. It gives the enemy other people to shoot at."
By: - 15th July 2001 at 23:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Ryanair still are a bunch of idiots.
You can't compare the prices of these two, a low cost carrier and a national one.
Its like comparing BA to easyjet, of course easyjet are cheaper but BA has the improved service and other major benefits which is why they can charge higher prices and still fill planes.
I don't agree with Ryanair saying they have a younger fleet, they are focusing on their 737-800's, the newest in their own fleet to the 737-200's, the oldest members of the sabena fleet.
From sabena's point of view they could say: Over half of Ryanairs fleet is made up of old 737-200's, while sabena's is getting younger all the time with the introduction of the airbuses.
They are advertising the few advantages and leaving out the disadvantages (name a company that doesn't) which isn't illegal, but I also think that people are clever enough to know there are disadvantages as with everything.
The bit about the younger fleet though is surely a lie and I don't think they should be able to make such a claim.
By: - 16th July 2001 at 10:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Ryanair still are a bunch of idiots.
Indeed Dan, you're right, that's what I mean. But it is illegal here to compare both with false arguments. And you say people are clever enough: the majority of the people don't know anything about civil aviation at all. If Ryanair says they use the newest airframes, most of the people will think "Ohh, Sabena still uses old and dangerous airplanes". That's how people think, you can not deny this! At least this is what the judge will say.
Comparing both is like comparing a Honda Civic - quality for the money you pay - with the newest Mercedes S-540! This is just B--S--.
But even than, they are not just comparing both, they are humiliating Sabena. I read in the Newspaper today that the chairman of Ryanair says that Sabena does not have any sence of humor. Maybe they are a bit sensitive because of the trouble from the last months, but they can miss such idiotic things like hell.
Geforce - "Teamwork is essential. It gives the enemy other people to shoot at."
By: - 16th July 2001 at 12:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Ryanair still are a bunch of idiots.
I didn´t compare it with Virgin Express, simply they cooperate with them in some routes. Sometimes it seems that the public quarels of the airlines, melt in private when they pact prices and services. In Spain happens the same. Iberia, Spanair and Air Europa (bad relations) pacted the prices and even Iberia rents planes from Iberia. Of course Ryanair doesn´t have anaything to do with good Sabena.
By: - 16th July 2001 at 18:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: at least Ryanair are cheap idiots.
ok, I had nothing better to do this afternoon, so I priced flights at both ryanair.com and sabena.com, for a week in September (18-25). By going three months in advance, I should be able to get all Apex/Super Apex fares, as I asked for the cheapest flights possible on the days in question.
The results are as follows:
Ryanair: Charleroi - Dublin 3757BEF (+ Handling charge)
Sabena: Brussels - Dublin 7009BEF (All Taxes included)
Ryanair: Charleroi - Prestwick 2810BEF (+ Handling charge)
Sabena: Brussels - Glasgow 11566BEF (All Taxes included)
Ryanair: Charleroi - Stansted 2012BEF (+ Handling charge)
Sabena: Brussels - Heathrow or London City 7135BEF (All Taxes included)
Ryanair: Charleroi - Treviso 3174BEF (+ Handling charge)
Sabena: Brussels - Venice Marco Polo 10500BEF (All taxes included) (Fare also avaliable with transfer at Nice (code share with Air Littoral))
I could get quotes for Sabena flights to both Shannon and Pisa, although there were no connections avaliable on the day, so I don't know the routes they proposed. There prices were as follows:
Ryanair: Charleroi - Shannon 2270BEF (+ Handling charge)
Sabena: Brussles - Shannon 25566BEF (All taxes included)
Ryanair: Charleroi - Pisa 3085BEF (+ Handling charge)
Sabena: Brussels - Pisa 26722BEF (All taxes included)
I couldn't find an eqivalent for Carcasonne at Sabena.
I think Ryanair's handling charge is just a credit card transaction fee, so it won't be a lot.
So the savings possible are:
Dublin 46.4%
Glasgow 75.7%
London 71.8%
Venice 69.8%
Shannon 91%
Pisa 88.4%
Ok, maybe they don't understand Belgian law, but surely they're allowed to promote their fares in adverts, as you can't buy their tickets at travel agents, so the only quote you'd get would be Sabena's. Having said that, it's possibly cheaper to go Sabena if you only book a week in advance. My Uncle found it cheaper going BA from Glasgow - Dublin, despite Ryanir's fares for the route starting at £1.45 + £5 tax
As to their 'our airframes are newer than yours' claim, that's unbelievably petty. Ryanair operate mainly 737-200's, they will eventually all be replaced by -800's, but at a rate of 5 a year. so it willl be another 3 or 4 years before they have the new fleet they claim to have.
By: - 16th July 2001 at 20:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: at least Ryanair are cheap idiots.
They only promote their one way tickets, Sabena does not sell one way tickets unless flying in business class. So it will never be the same : or they are comparing the full packet with just a one way ticket or they compare business with economy class. The prices are the ones that I also found in the newspaper so there must be something wrong about them, otherwise the judge wouldn't force them to change their advertisments.
Ryanair can be usefull when you want to fly to Ibiza for example, a couple of days partying, get drunk and than fly back. But when you want to get in time, if you have a company to run, people will always rely on the classic airlinecompanies. I just can't believe they can make the prices so low. You need the money to let the plane take of, you need to pay for a license to fly from that airport (not expensive in Charleroi, about 200 € or even less as the government is paying the most.
But thanks anyway Bhoy, but there's always a tricky part, there's something smelly about it which we'll find out later. I already heard they earn lots of money because their proces of cancellation is not working properly (not by accident but with intensions to do so), so people don't want to go through the whole proces, they just leave it like this!
Geforce - "Teamwork is essential. It gives the enemy other people to shoot at."
Posts: 3,671
By: Geforce - 14th July 2001 at 11:44
This new Irish low-budget airlinecompany is making its way into the Belgian airline-industry. With low prices, cheap commerciandising and other stuff, they try to attrackt new clients.
A couple of days ago Sabena sued Ryanair because their commercials are full of lies, crap etc. They compare Sabena prices during the most expensive season, in first class, with the best comfort possible with their own flights. Ofcourse Sabena is more expensive, but they do have cheap flights, only not in that time of the year. Recent studies announced that during the same period of the year, a flight from Brussels to Toulouse is cheaper with Sabena than with Ryanair. That's why Sabena won this trial and Ryanair was forced to correct their mistakes into all the belgian newspapers.
When I opened my newspaper yesterday - De Standaard, a respected belgian newspaper - I saw the stupidest, most childish commercial i've ever seen. "We're soooooooo sorry sabena" was the title. They compared the two airlinecompanies again and still they make the same faults. They also claim that they have newer airframes (they use the 737-800, Sabena uses the -200 but that's BS ofcourse because Sabena uses its A-320 for short distances). They also claim that they are the only one who comes in time in Brussels. That's because they're the only ones who still fly from Charleroi airport (a cheap airport, more or less like in a third world-country. They actually get money from the French speaking government to use Brussels South or Charleroi, otherwise it would already be closed.
Ryanair are a bunch of idiots, they think that with such idiotic commercials they can regain the confidence from the Belgian people. But it's extremely stupid to put this in such highly respected newspapers, i'm sure they'll lose lots of sympathy. I never flew with Ryanair and i don't want to fly with them, ever!
And why to they tease Sabena like this? Because they are all assholes, and since Sabena has it's own problems, they try to profit from them. Pathetic. Those are all hooligans, I hope mr Ryan and his pathetic little airline-company leaves Brussels South ASAP and go back to Ireland, because he has nothing to do here anymore!
RYANAIR SUCKS
Geforce - "Teamwork is essential. It gives the enemy other people to shoot at."