Virgin in Star Alliance?

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Sir Richard Branson has publically stated that he doesn't want to join one of the global alliances, although he did admit that the way the airline industry is going, he may have no other choice in order to remain competitive.

I recently read that with QANTAS' subsequent takeover of Impulse, there was a possible Virgin Blue/Ansett domestic partnership in the works in order compete with the new QANTAS/QANTAS Link. Considering that Singapore Airlines-itself a major player in the Star Alliance-owns 25% of Ansett/Air New Zealand and 49% of Virgin, this potential partnership makes sense. With that in mind, Virgin joining the Star Alliance is a no-brainer, for a variety of other reasons. Aside from the reason already mentioned, Virgin joining Star would benefit both Virgin and other Star Alliance members in providing a little more competition for Oneworld at LHR, where they clearly dominate. United already has a decent presence at Heathrow serving 7 U.S. gateways, and BMI has a decent European presence from there, as well. Throw Virgin into the mix with these 2, along with the other Star members that serve LHR, and suddently Oneworld's monopoly isn't as huge as it was. There's no secret about Sir Richard Branson's opposition towards nearly everything BA/AA attempt to do (No Way BA/AA! immediately comes to mind). This would be a good way, in my opinion, of him sticking it to them even further. What do you guys think?

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

Good as oposition to BA Oneworld, but conflicts of interests with Star BD. I see Virgin in other aliance like Qualifyer.

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

Qualiflyer is as good as dead. The Austrian Group was smart to get out when they could to join Star. Then AOM/Air Liberte were abolished because SwissAir could no longer support them financially. Now, SwissAir themselves, by far the biggest airline in Qualiflyer, is probably going to join Oneworld. Virgin isn't going to join an alliance that is going nowhere.

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

The star alliance would not be suitable for Virgin as Keltic said.There is a lot of compition between BD and VS,just last month BD in a suprise move,was granted the Heathrow-Mexico city route which was expected to go to VS.This has alarmed Virgin as it previously regarded itself as the second main trans-atlantic airline.I believe that if VS do want to stay 2nd then they will have to join an alliance,such as the wings alliance.

Regards Saab 2000

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

Wings or Skyteam makes a hell of a lot more sense than Qualiflyer! I'll give you that much. How would Singapore feel about them joining one of those alliances, knowing that they control 49% of them?

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

if virgin joins the star alliance what routes is it really going to benefit from
with a limited longhaul network it will be competing from heathrow with ana thai sia varig united air canada and now bmi i dont think star needs virgin or any more alliance members virgin would be better with skyteam as the major player in heathrow in the 3rd major allaince

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

If Virgin every did join an alliance they would be best in Skyteam.If they joined wings then would be with KLM,Northwest and Malaysia,which if the proposed merger between KLM and BA goes ahead,then they would all join Oneworld.If ever they joined an alliance,I would hope it to be Skyteam with Aero Mexico,Air France,CSA,Delta,Korean air and soon Alitalia.

Regards Saab 2000

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

What routes would it benefit from? Jesus, where should I start? They'd be able to codeshare with 15 other airlines. They'd gain instant access to a U.S. domestic system with 5 hubs, not to mention access to the biggest(practically only) airline in Canada and it's domestic system. That's only the tip of the iceberg. I was just looking at it from the stanpoint of Singapore owning 49% of Virgin, and then with the talk of the Ansett/Virgin Blue partnership where Singapore also owns 25% of ANZ/Ansett(looking to acquire 15% more as well), it just made a lot of sense from those aspects. If you owned that much stake in a particular company, wouldn't you want to draw them in with you?

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

Star Alliance is just not the cup of tea for Virgin. Star Alliance have got a big name in the industrie as the biggest alliance and most succesful, BUT if Virgin joins the Qualiflyers, that will give a big boost to them, already Air France and Alitalia are there as big guns, if Virgin joins, nothing like it. As i think Star Alliance is a big alliance, no doubt, but hype also counts fr 40% of there succes. As i experienced a cancelled SAS flight recently to Delhi, none of the Star Alliance members could arrange for a substitute fight fr 24 hrs. I wont call that a succesful alliance. Its not all about earning frequent flyer points and all....its about service. As Sir Richard Branson said they wont join any alliance, i think the inner story will be diffrent...with all these airlines joining and forming big alliances, Virgin wont be able to survive the market going solo. Wait and watch...they will get into a alliance.

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

LAST EDITED ON 28-08-01 AT 07:32 PM (GMT)[p]Correct me if I'm wrong Kabir, but did you not just mention that Air France and Alitalia were part of Qualiflyer? If you did, I assure you, they are not. At least, Air France surely is not. They're in Skyteam, if I'm not mistaken. As far as Branson not wanting to join an alliance, but may wind up having to because of all the consolidation and growth of other alliances, I mentioned that at the very beginning, when I first made the post. As far as what you said about no Star member being able to substitute a flight to Delhi for you, I totally agree with you there. In those scenarios, Alliances need to step up, and I don't see them doing that. Frequent flyer mileage is nice, as is going into partner lounges(LH's lounge in Heathrow terminal 2, wow!), but they need to be more streamlined and backing each other up, making sure all their customers are happy in that respect. If there's a flight they can put you on with an empty seat to get you there, they should do it pronto. Even if there's a stop or 2, it should happen.

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

I can't see Virgin joining anyone but the Star alliance. They are as stated above 49% owned by Singapore Airlines and already have agreements (frequent flyer anyway) with Singapore, SAS and BMI.
The catch is that is a bit of overlapping with Star carriers, US routes with United and Tokyo with ANA but I still can't see them joining any other group, if they ever do.

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

what does overlapping matter? Look at BA and AA... they're competitive on transatlantic segments because of a lack of antitrust immunity... surely it would be the same with VS?

VS also codeshare on some flights from LGW to LAX and SFO with CO, and some BD domestic flights carry VS prefixes. There's plenty to muse about there.

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

What a blunder i made...and i call myself a aviation enthu...sorry Skyteam what i meant. Thanx for correcting me.

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

Yes, Qualiflyer is having a bad time, but I still think they are eager to revitalise the aliance by adding new members. The benefits offered to Virgin would be irrisistable. That´s simply an oppinion.

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

well i dont know to much about virgin and its ownership as i work for emirates so they are of no interest to me but i think vs would be better off in skyteam and they can be a major player in that alliance i would have thought star has enough major airlines as it is

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

Dan, I gotta' give you props for being the only one to agree with me. I respect the rest of your guys' opinions, as well. I just wanted to stir something up in here since I'm new. As far as overlapping, as somebody mentioned, that is meaningless. United overlaps with several Star members on several key routes. LAX-AKL and LAX-SYD both with ANZ. LAX-NRT with ANA, Singapore, Thai and Varig. Those are just a couple. As far as the VS codeshare with Continental goes, it's from LHR to LAX not Gatwick. Furthermore, members of alliances continue to have agreements with other airlines on certain routes, therefore, I don't see why VS couldn't continue to allow CO to put their codes on their flights even if they did join Star, provided CO themselves didn't join some major alliance.

P.S. I just read today that Singapore may indeed take a further 10% stake in ANZ, bringing their total to 35%. Also, ANZ is in further talks to take a stake in Virgin Blue, and not just have them sign an agreement with Ansett, as I had previously pointed out.

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

Fair enough, overlapping is meaningless so I don't see any real problem with Virgin joining Star.
The CO agreement is also on certain routes from Gatwick, certainly Virgins flights to Orlando and both carriers share codes for their Newark flights.
I thought I heard a while ago that Continental were looking to end the agreement, has anyone else heard this or was it my imagination?

Anyway I totally agree with Greekdude1, I cannot possibly see Virgin joining any alliance other than Star, I find it surprising to hear so many people who disagree, but everybody has their own opinion.

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RE: Virgin in Star Alliance?

I have changed my mind,i think Virgin would be best in the Star alliance.looking round the VS website i came across all their alliance partners: BMI,Continental,Malaysian,Ansett Australia and Singapore.
The conflict with BD and VS can't be that bad as Bhoy said there is an alliance with British Midland on long haul flights which link up with a number of regional airports in Europe,Amsterdam, Belfast, Brussels, Dublin, Edinburgh, Teesside, Glasgow, Leeds–Bradford, Manchester, Milan, Madrid and Rome.
Virgin fly to Hong Kong then with their agreement with Ansett means passengers can change flights to either Sydney or Melbourne.I know Virgin and Ansett want to start a service between Heathrow and Sydney and Melbourne and Anestt the same,maybe a possible code share agreement?
With Singapore airlines well they have a 49% stake in Virgin and numerous code share agreements with them.

Although i have said Virgin would be best in star,again i don't think this would happen soon,Virgin's profits are good and with new routes and aircraft such as the A380 i don't think all these alliances are affecting it much at the moment.

Regards saab 2000