KLM Pricing Policy

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Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 129

Is it just me or is it just crazy?

If I want to go to Amsterdam tomorrow and come back on Thrusday, they want £500 and only offer full flex fare.

If I go on Sunday and come back Monday, they want around the same.

if I go on Saturday and come back Monday, its £300 cheaper?!

Is this just done out of 'cleverness' (aka sheer greed) or is there an actual reason? My weekend is stuffed now.

On the other hand, it's costing me £350 to fly to Boston next week, returning from JFK....can't complain about that fare but how it can be cheaper to fly to Boston than Amsterdam is beyond me.

/end rant ;)

Original post

Member for

20 years 2 months

Posts: 2,495

Certain fares structures require minimum stays etc, some may require you to stay 2 nights or your saty may have to include a Saturday or a Sunday night.

This sort of pricing is years old and way out of date, alot of airlines like EI and BA have dropped it it dumbed it down where as the low cost airlines dont use it at all.

Member for

18 years 5 months

Posts: 157

Are you from the UK?

Try easyjet, Jet2 or bmibaby... their last minute flight bookings are usually at least half the price of that!

Member for

21 years

Posts: 4,209

KLM must be one of the last short haul carriers in Europe to still do this, I haven't seen it in action for years now.

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 129

Well aren't I unlucky that it's my only real option to get to Amsterdam!

I'd rather fly out monday morning, return monday night but no...a day return is about £450

outrageous to be fair

Where is the logic in a 2 night stay? how does it affect them in any way? Is it more about the liklihood of a short trip being business so they just cash in?

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 4,887

I'd rather fly out monday morning, return monday night but no...a day return is about £450
You can also go for a one night stay saturday to sunday. Since most interesting planes are early morning arrivals you might as well take that option. The afternoon can be spend quite nicely in town.

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 129

Unfortunatley the reason I am going is work, and that's on Monday!

No arguments about spending the afternoon in town but when it gets into double figures of times visiting Amsterdam you start to run out of things to do on your own :p

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 4,887

Unfortunatley the reason I am going is work, and that's on Monday!

No arguments about spending the afternoon in town but when it gets into double figures of times visiting Amsterdam you start to run out of things to do on your own :p

I think there are considerably more then double-digit windows in Amsterdam. :dev2:

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 170

Chris,try buying a ticket to an onward destination from AMS.
For example.NCL to Hamburg but miss the onward flights.
I have flown many journeys through Amsterdam and they were always cheaper than Amsterdam only within Europe.
Also,I once wanted to fly LBA to Moscow 1 way.The fare was almost 800GBP but, a return ticket was almost half price so I bought a return ticket and did not use it.

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 129

Nice tip there, thanks!

In the past I have booked two return fares which has been cheaper than a single...but that was only really suitable when I knew where I was going.

A while ago I got a price for a day return of £420. As a matter of interest I thought I'd see how much it was to New York...it was £440! Madness.

Only a week to go til i'm off to Boston though :D

Where is the best place to sit on the A330?

Member for

18 years 4 months

Posts: 2,561

I sat on Row 30A on my last trip on KLM A330 plenty of leg room to stretch out. May i suggest that you prebook your exit seat online as KLM have now stopped us getting access to the Exit rows at check in.

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 129

The thing is, the exit rows always seem to be taken right away! I suppose as soon as I get that "check in now..." email I will have to get on the case.

I think I can get access to better seating online now since my skyteam level went up to Silver...we shall see I suppose.

Member for

18 years 6 months

Posts: 2,343

Chris,try buying a ticket to an onward destination from AMS.
For example.NCL to Hamburg but miss the onward flights.
I have flown many journeys through Amsterdam and they were always cheaper than Amsterdam only within Europe.

I work in ticketing/reservations for a company related to KLM, and must warn you to be very cautious of this practice...although it is not deemed illegal (as far as I am aware!), the airlines frown upon it and if people are found to be doing it alot they can stop you from travelling with them in the future!

Do not use this method if/when booking return flights (i.e. NCL-AMS-HAM-AMS-NCL), simply because if you miss any one sector of your journey, the remaining sectors of the booking can & will be canx by the airline, simply because they assume you are not travelling and therefore use your seat for another paying pax! If you then turn up at AMS wanting to fly back home to NCL, they will say you do not have a booking/seat on the flight and will force you to modify your booking (if your ticket rules permit you to do so!) or they could even force you to buy a brand new one-way ticket, which will be very expensive!

Also, think carefully about your baggage if you have stuff that you wish to check-in...if you book a flight to somewhere within Europe via AMS, your baggage will be tagged all the way to your final destination. If you ask the check-in agent just to tag your baggage to AMS, then they will more than likely ask you why, and if you let onto them that you do not intend to travel to your final destination, they will force you to modify your ticket (again, if your ticket rules permit you to do so!) and charge you the necessary penalty change fees and any additional increase in the fare!

Just something to consider...;)

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 129

Well, i've only needed to do it twice in the past, both without problems. Perhaps if they want people to avoid this, they should change their daft pricing policies.

I don't see how they benefit from a customer taking a 2 night stay somewhere? Or is it done purely so that they can charge extra for the luxury of coming home sooner? It's a bit of a joke really.

Baggage always comes with me :p

Member for

21 years

Posts: 4,209

Or is it done purely so that they can charge extra for the luxury of coming home sooner?

Correct.

This practice still exists on long haul routes with virtually every carrier in the world, it is only on short haul where it has been generally eradicated.

Member for

18 years 6 months

Posts: 2,343

Well, i've only needed to do it twice in the past, both without problems.

I'm not saying stop doing it because at the end of the day its your choice to do it, but please do not put a post up here in the future saying how annoyed you are because an airline has banned you from travelling with them for not following their ticketing regulations and general conditions of carriage, as I do not want to be the one to deliver the 'I told you so...' speech!;)

Perhaps if they want people to avoid this, they should change their daft pricing policies.

I agree, but not so that people can get cheaper fares...I would like them and other airlines to change their daft pricing policies simply because it will make my job a heck of a lot easier and quicker!:D:rolleyes:

I don't see how they benefit from a customer taking a 2 night stay somewhere? Or is it done purely so that they can charge extra for the luxury of coming home sooner? It's a bit of a joke really.

Whilst your right in a sense that it does not benefit the airline itself directly by making the customer stay over for 2 nights, but ultimatley the airline has to attract customers to fly with them, and to do this they have to offer low fares, of which some of these low fares will carry certain conditions attached with them. Also, if the airline has an agreement with a specific hotel chain, they may well offer it as a flights+hotel package for a cheaper price than what it would be if you booked the flights and hotel seperatley.

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 129

Fair enough, I can't argue with any of that really!

I'm sure you see my point though :p

I shouldn't moan...I don't even pay for it! But after being to Amsterdam so many times, another weekend there just doesn't really spark much interest any more!

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 1,342

I'm not sure that KLM still imposes 'Saturday night stay' rules and the like, these have virtually been eradicated by all airlines these days.

What you experienced in the fare search was yield management at it's best, and all airlines practice this, which is why (as an example) I have bought tickets from Manchester to Dublin with Ryanair for a penny 6 weeks out, but if you try to book the fare tomorrow for a day return business trip, it will be £200+ (providing you don't get them free :rolleyes:)

This is how airlines make their money. Based upon how seats on the flight are selling, once they have sold so many then they adjust the fares upwards (and sometimes downwards if sales fall off). As I'm sure you're aware, most leisure passengers are price sensitive, so they are offered cheaper fares some time before the flight, and those travelling on business often don't know that far out that they will travel, and are typically willing to pay more to travel when they want to (and need to, which is where the airline gets the business traveller over a barrel).

My guess is that on a Sunday night and Monday morning demand for the KLM services from NCL will be quite high as people reposition themselves throughout Europe for Monday meetings. Once the fare was very high, you'd probably find there were only a very small number of seats left. By this point the airline had probably covered the cost of the flight and made profit and was just chancing it with the last few seats to squeeze as much revenue as possible from those who absolutely HAD to fly.

Member for

19 years 8 months

Posts: 1,953

Its called "yield management" or "revenue management". Its not that difficult a concept to grasp - the airline is merely trying to get the best revenue possible from every seat whilst trying not to end up with lots off empty seats. Often business travellers do not want to stay over a Saturday night or several days, so the airline can charge more for that type of travel. Leisure passengers, as has been said, are more price sensitive so the airline can use cheaper fares to drive such passengers to flights on which they are unlikely to sell all the seats at higher fares - off peak flights, flights going against the predominant flow of traffic, or simply just charging more on flights that they know they will sell higher fares on.

And for anyone who doesn't like the concept of airlines charging more to travellers who don't stay a Saturday night (or several days), consider this - the higher fares paid by some travellers often "subsidise" the really cheap fares. If anyone takes a look at the fare breakdown on a really cheap fare, often the fare is next to nothing and most of the charges are taxes. An airline flying [say] NCL-AMS will NOT make any money on a base return fare of £20 (obviously though somewhat more once taxes are added).

Andy

PS: The Saturday night rule often works well for me when I go to the US west coast on business. If I stay on over a Saturday night, the fare saving versus coming back on Friday is often so much that the company will pay for my Friday and Saturday nights and STILL save money - so we do a deal, I stay longer, the company pays for the hotel, I get a couple of days "vacation" and its still cheaper than coming back Friday (which I would insist doing if the company didn't pay for the hotel).

Member for

18 years 7 months

Posts: 5,530

Chris,try buying a ticket to an onward destination from AMS.
For example.NCL to Hamburg but miss the onward flights.

Be very wary when doing this! If you don't turn up for both sectors outbound it isn't uncommon for the airline to cancel your return. It makes no real sense, I know, but it does happen!

Paul

Member for

18 years 4 months

Posts: 2,561

Be very wary when doing this! If you don't turn up for both sectors outbound it isn't uncommon for the airline to cancel your return. It makes no real sense, I know, but it does happen!

Paul

Agreed! Its getting very common now! Have lost count of the amount of times ive had passengers turn up at my gate only to find they have been offloaded by the carrier for not been on there outbound flight.