Should YOU stop flying?

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Member for

18 years 6 months

Posts: 2,343

Just a reminder for all fellow members, there is a programme on BBC at 9pm tonight called "Should we stop flying?" or something very similar.

I saw a brief preview of it on Breakfast this morning and looks quite interesting, so would be worth a watch.

Anyways, if you do watch it let us know what you think about it and the arguments it puts forward...

Original post

Member for

18 years 2 months

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Thanks for the heads up!

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 11,159

Thanks for the heads up!

Don't get too excited EGPH, it's not being shown in BBC Scotland, we've got a documentary about 1930's Scottish anarchists instead.:(

Member for

18 years 1 month

Posts: 565

I don't care about the envoirnment-simple as,in that manner,life is too short & pointless to worry about what the world will be like in a hundred years,i'll be dead by then.I always pick up my rubbish & recycle but that kind of thing has an immediate affect on your own local envoirnment,and besides air travel hardly contributes to global warming

Member for

19 years 5 months

Posts: 9,821

How far are you prepared to go?
Limit the number of flights a person can do a year? 1 holiday & 6 business flights?
Prevent them from adding new routes?

Shut down airlines all together?

Discuss....

Member for

18 years 7 months

Posts: 5,530

I don't care about the envoirnment-simple as,in that manner,life is too short & pointless to worry about what the world will be like in a hundred years,i'll be dead by then.I always pick up my rubbish & recycle but that kind of thing has an immediate affect on your own local envoirnment,and besides air travel hardly contributes to global warming

I have to say, Gary, although I'm far from the most active environmentalist I can't believe what you've just written. Air travel DOES contribute to global warming, as does road travel, rail travel, cutting your grass with a petrol lawnmower, etc, and the fact you can actually say you genuinely do not care astounds me. That said, I've done 110 flights in the last two years and I'll be doing another two tomorrow, two again on Saturday and probably another 60 or so before the end of the year. Unless they bad air travel altogether, I'll continue flying.

I suppose it's quite easy for industries to grow as demand increases, but extremely difficult to halt their expansion or even down-size if demand continues to exist. Perhaps it's my natural in-built musician cynicism, but I'm not entirely sure many of the extremist environmentalists or even some politicians have actually thought their argument regarding this subject out thoroughly. If, for example, all UK internal flights are banned (as has recently been discussed), what will happen? The people who are no longer flying will still have to travel, so they'll find other means. They could use our very poor and disorganised rail network, or use our already overcrowded and badly kept motorways. Which will impact the environment most? A few hundred short flights or thousands upon thousands of extra cars sitting hour after hour in traffic jams belching out pollutants while the people they're transporting don't actually get anywere? As far as I'm aware the average passenger aircraft is far more efficient per passenger than road travel (please correct me if I'm wrong on that, I just seem to remember reading it somewhere). If that's the case, the argument for banning internal flights makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I wonder sometimes if the people who think these ideas up are genuine, caring individuals with deep concerns for the well being of our little blue sphere in space and its future inhabitants, or simply narrow minded, ignorant fools with no better way to spend their time.

Cynical? Me? :)

Paul

Member for

19 years 8 months

Posts: 679

As usual with the politically correct BBC the program was very biased, nothing much to report than that. Topped off with the hypocritical namby pamby tree huggers, with one in particular who flew said he flew a mere 3 weeks ago! :rolleyes:

Lets face it, no one is going to stop using air travel - and whether the tree huggers or the BBC like it they can do nothing about it.

Flex

Member for

17 years 4 months

Posts: 344

I don't care about the envoirnment-simple as,in that manner,life is too short & pointless to worry about what the world will be like in a hundred years,i'll be dead by then.I always pick up my rubbish & recycle but that kind of thing has an immediate affect on your own local envoirnment,and besides air travel hardly contributes to global warming

As far as I can tell, it's not going to happen in the next hundred years, but certinally seeing adjustments in our life time. Even if it doesn't, travel is going to change a lot over the next few decades.

Whatever they do, Road Pricing will be a nightmare and I hope to god it is not introduced. Cameron has some good ideas with high speed trains and whatever, although I wonder what he'd do with Air Travel. Nothing too drastic since it's fun ;) but clearly something needs to be done.

Programme was quite good. But the main insight it gave is just how convinent air travel is! Rail travel is a pain the bum at the moment, New Street is always over crowded as are the trains.

Member for

18 years 8 months

Posts: 1,280

Many problems than just blaming air travel.

1) Not enough recycling bins on public UK streets. Toronto every bin is for a different purpose. One for bottles, one for paper, one for genral waste.

2) Too many parents driving kids 200 yards to school in landrovers.

3) Pointless journeys made by people in cars, myself sometimes.

4) Not enough been done like solar powered houses etc, and even if theyre is theyre too expensive.

Member for

17 years 2 months

Posts: 163

The simple fact is that, as Singapore Airlines put it in the programme, flying cannot stop, we've become too reliant on it in our world today that if people were stopped from flying then the world would be in a lot of trouble.

And that guy that expects 90% of flights to be stopped immediately is crazy!:eek:

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18 years 8 months

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flying is the economy.

Member for

18 years 7 months

Posts: 5,530

Not enough recycling bins on public UK streets. Toronto every bin is for a different purpose.

Ah yes, but that's Toronto, where the buses, trams and underground are wonderful, reliable and on time, and where things generally around the city are well thought out, as they are in many major European cities. We, however unfortunately live in the UK which has a remarkable lack of ability to do things well!

Paul

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 11,159

As usual with the politically correct BBC the program was very biased, nothing much to report than that. Topped off with the hypocritical namby pamby tree huggers, with one in particular who flew said he flew a mere 3 weeks ago! :rolleyes:

Lets face it, no one is going to stop using air travel - and whether the tree huggers or the BBC like it they can do nothing about it.

Flex

So let's just carry on regardless eh ?

I think the programme raises some important points, and no we're not saying air travel is the most cardinal of sinners. Like the David Attenborough led programme on BBC-1 just before suggested, we need to look at developing less polluting forms of fuels, so that we can continue driving cars, flying planes etc etc. The trouble we have is that the goverments of the western world are heavily 'in the pockets' of the major petro-chemical companies and they quite frankly don't give a damn...

Member for

18 years 5 months

Posts: 992

Ah yes, but that's Toronto, where the buses, trams and underground are wonderful, reliable and on time, and where things generally around the city are well thought out, as they are in many major European cities. We, however unfortunately live in the UK which has a remarkable lack of ability to do things well!

Paul


Yes, I've seen evidence of other european cities enforcing recycling well. I don't know what the rest of the UK is like, but the Edin council collects recycled bottles/tins/paper/garden waste etc every two weeks which I would say is a step in the right direction.

I say the same thing everytime a 'pollution' thread pops up on these forums....yes air travel of course contributes and may increase as more airlines form and more jets are ordered, but more of an emphasis is put on efficient and ecconomical powerplants than other industries and as such the contribution is lower than - as has already been mentioned - eg cars.

I was told that hydrogen powered engines for planes are possible (thus only producing water as a by-prodeuct), however storage of the fuel is a great difficulty (15 tonnes storage for every 1 tonne of fuel) and also carbon is produced when making the fuel so it's not carbon neutral anyway.

The trouble we have is that the goverments of the western world are heavily 'in the pockets' of the major petro-chemical companies and they quite frankly don't give a damn...

Just as a note, this isn't strictly the case. A lot of investment is being put into Nuclear programmes AND renewable sources - there is a lot of funding available for hydrogen solutions and fuel cell development. Main reason is, the easiest, quickest and cheapest ways of producing the fuel needed for the latter two are, in fact, through using energy made available from fossil fuels.

As a reuslt of this, non-renewable companies aren't as scared of renewable fuels as you think they would be as their fuel is still recquired (at the moment) to produce these fuels.

Member for

19 years 8 months

Posts: 1,953

Sorry, but the program was a load of clap trap - typical BBC "reportage" in fact. I don't believe in global warming - the planet goes through natural warming up and cooling down cycles, and we happen to be heading for one of the warming up cycles. Too bad.

Whether I fly to Vancouver and Dubai next month, Los Angeles in March, Geneva in May, and San Francisco and Dallas later in the year (plus all the other air trips I will inevitably make this year - last year I flew over 90 one-way flights, and I do not expect to fly less this year or in subsequent years) makes not a blind bit of difference anyway. Those flights will still operate whether I get on them or not, they will create the same amount of emissions which won't have an adverse effect on the environment anyway, and even if I do travel on these flights I will not cause of additional flights to be operated that add to air traffic. So I don't feel guity, won't change my travel intentions, and I have no intention of buying into "carbon offsetting" either.

I'm afraid global warming is a mantra that's being preached by the nutters of this world that's unfortunately being picked up by the politicians. They see it not so much an environmental problem but more so as a means of raising revenue, so they jump on it. Tell me what benefit to the environment the increased departure taxes will have? Absolutely none - they'll just go into the treasury to pay for more lunatic schemes aimed at pandering to minorities in this country. If global warming is a problem (and I again I say I don't believe it is), government needs to stop preaching to the masses who fly and taxing us under false pretenses, and get on with building truely environmentally friendly facilities like nuclear power stations that don't kick any s**t out into the atmosphere.

Like the David Attenborough led programme on BBC-1 just before suggested, we need to look at developing less polluting forms of fuels, so that we can continue driving cars, flying planes etc etc.

David Attenborough is one of the most two-faced individuals preaching about global warming. He has the affrontary to jolly off around the globe making his boring documentaries along with midiads of camera and sound crew, and then tells us all we should be cutting back. A** hole. If he really wants to preach on the subject, he should make a stand by refusing to make further programs that require any travel.

Andy

PS: I am proud to state that I have gotten rid of the nasty SUV/4x4 I used to drive! :cool: I have changed it for a smaller car that (a) creates more emissions than the SUV, (b) does worse mpg particularly if driven spiritedly as the type of car concerned encourages, and (c) is rated much worse in impact tests with pedestrians. But the environmental proponent on our street has complimented me on making a positive change for the good of the planet - what an IDIOT :rolleyes: :D

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18 years 9 months

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Why does this thread show only 6 replies on the main page?

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24 years 2 months

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I think some perspective is needed - the UK's total output accounts for 12% of the worlds output - maybe we need to push the bigger players also as I havent seen anything in news of late about USA doing any moves to combat theirs.....

1) Not enough recycling bins on public UK streets. Toronto every bin is for a different purpose. One for bottles, one for paper, one for genral waste.

The EU made it complusary for all LAA (Local Area Authorities) to provide a Green Blue and Brown bin to households within the EU with a cut off date of i think April 2007. Heavy fines will be dished out if no one has got their systems running by then.

We have had ours for a while now as have much of NI!

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Why does this thread show only 6 replies on the main page?


Lots of members reporting problems across a wide range of features/parts Webmaster has been made aware

Member for

18 years 9 months

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Cheers for that Andrew.

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19 years 5 months

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The EU made it complusary for all LAA (Local Area Authorities) to provide a Green Blue and Brown bin to households within the EU with a cut off date of i think April 2007. Heavy fines will be dished out if no one has got their systems running by then.

For what it's worth...most major US cities have had such programs for years.

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18 years 4 months

Posts: 2,810

Skymonster .well said....at last I am not the only one who does not swallow the whole of this global warming bandwagon. The true facts are being left out because its not politically convenient.Even the scientists are not happy about the current hysteria being generated in the media. Yes there are concerns but it is no way a catastrophe.