BA cabin crew vote for strike.

By: Bmused55 - 15th January 2007 at 12:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Forgive my ignorance.

Would any of this have anything to do with Willie Walsh?
I know he was a hard ass at Aer Lingus when it came to working conditions and related issues for Crew and Staff.

By: rdc1000 - 15th January 2007 at 13:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Here we go again, BA staff taking a knife to their nose because it'll spite the face!!!!!!! I wonder sometimes if they're living in the modern aviation world, or just dreaming of a by-gone era?? OK, so BA is back among the world's most profitables, but they won't stay there if the staff hold it back too much. I'm sure for the staff there are some unacceptable conditions, and I understand that to give too much would encourage WW to want more, but strike action...come on people, make yourselves synonymous with unreliability and you won't have many passengers to serve before long, so then you'll have an easy working life!!

By: Bmused55 - 15th January 2007 at 14:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Here we go again, BA staff taking a knife to their nose because it'll spite the face!!!!!!! I wonder sometimes if they're living in the modern aviation world, or just dreaming of a by-gone era?? OK, so BA is back among the world's most profitables, but they won't stay there if the staff hold it back too much. I'm sure for the staff there are some unacceptable conditions, and I understand that to give too much would encourage WW to want more, but strike action...come on people, make yourselves synonymous with unreliability and you won't have many passengers to serve before long, so then you'll have an easy working life!!

My thoughts exactly.

I won't profess to know the exact grievance, but striking will surely be counterproductive. It puts BA at risk which, logically, puts the Cabin Crews jobs at risk.

I can see WW axing some people to get his point across.

By: andrewm - 15th January 2007 at 16:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I won't profess to know the exact grievance, but striking will surely be counterproductive. It puts BA at risk which, logically, puts the Cabin Crews jobs at risk.

My thoughts exactly (sorry to steal your phrase sandy)

By: kevinwm - 15th January 2007 at 21:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

As The unions are having talks Tuesday 16-01-07,I believe that this is a shot across the bows Of WW, to let him know exactly the how the workforce ( including engineering, ground , and pilots ) feel
The Staff have endured a lot in the past few years , to bring BA back into Profit, but have see little in the way of gratitude from the Management, and the latest round of ideas from management have been the straw that might have broken the camels back

The staff know that a strike will end BA, but they are fed up with WW and his predecessors who have not listen to the staff at the front end.

By: Dantheman77 - 16th January 2007 at 04:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

But it seems that the cabin crew at LGW are not in support of there collegues at LHR

Taken from PPrune..

I just wish some over paid crew would take a few minutes out to see how good they've got it. Seriously, you have. Most other airlines do not have such a thing as crew rest. I've been on a flight where the crew have walked through the cabin in shirt, tie and pyjama bottoms!!!! How professional! I'm not based at the golden runways, but I'm allegedly working for the same company. At LGW we get told every day by pax how friendly and chatty etc we are. Lots of pax prefer flying from LGW because it's less hassle, fewer delays and we're professional. So, what's my rant about? Well, all the issues bassa has decided to ballot about, we already deal with at LGW. We work 3 crew on the 737. We have one CM and one Purser on the 777 whether it's 3 class or 4 class. We're on hourly pay (and survive!). The difference is that I and a majority of my colleagues at LGW are fed up with being sold down the river by our so-called colleagues at LHR for years but they expect us to stand up for them and strike. It winds me up. I'd be happy to vote for a strike if the issues actually affect me, but they don't (apart from the little breakfast allowance that was added at the end of the form as we were kicking off about it). I don't want to lose my job. I don't want to have to look for another job. I know I'm not the best paid in the company or indeed the world, but I'm a hell of a lot better paid than a lot of other people. I'm not starving to death and I can still afford a glass of wine when I want. It's called living within your means without being greedy. Sorry for the rant, had to get it out of my system...

And cabin crew who worked for BA, now with other airlines think that they don't live in the real world

Again taken from Pprune

I must admit I had trouble understanding the scenes of unbridled joy at the CC meeting when the cameras picked up the announcement of the pro-strike vote! I would say a very high proportion of them will 'chicken out' when it goes nuclear.
"Certainly in my experience, where an employer pays low wages and expects alot, the employees tend to be less committed." Disagree!
After a career in BA and now an independant, I have to say I am stunned at how hard working and dedicated they are in independantland. I have never seen BA crews work like I have seen amongst independants outside. Dare one say far more commitment too? The astonishing saga of 75 minutes bunk rest on a LHR-CAI followed by a 24 hour slip? How about LTN- Egypt or Israel-back to LTN then taxi to LGW. 3 cabin crew 737, full meal service both ways. I'm afraid the reality of life outside hasn't sunk into BA yet! I hope they see sense, but they will get broken if they go ahead- the costs disparity is ginormous.

By: rdc1000 - 16th January 2007 at 09:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Well following Dan's post it appears I partially need to retract some of my earlier sentiments, as it appears some BA (and former BA) staff are actually plugged into the real world, and it appears that it is only the LHR based staff that are "living the dream" from 1954 when it was a glamourous era. If the cabin crew seriosuly think they'll do better with another airline then they're kidding themselves!!! Therefore if they slowly want to see BA suffer further, and eventually lead to more cuts, then they're going the right way about it, and then they'll have to risk the open market, and given the lower ratios of employment onboard at other airlines, then I would assume they won't all get jobs!!

Also got to remember that yields from the UK are not what they used to be, and other areas of the world are leading the economic march, and therefore BA has this issue to contend with. Get over yourselves!!!

By: Paul F - 16th January 2007 at 13:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Possible BA Cabin Crew Strike

Anyone like to bet against the first strike date(s) being during the week before (or actually over?) the Easter w/e - Say 4th - 9th April :rolleyes:

This gives both sides a chance to play the usual brinkmanship games for a month or two before a strike becomes necessary to make the point.

So, yet again, the travelling public, who are the people who ultimately foot the wage bill for BA personnel (inc cabin crew), have their Easter travel plans at best threatened, and at worst disrupted.

A disruptive strike is probably not the best way to ensure your high profile employer remains in business and remains in profit, and thus keeps people in paid employment, but hey ho, I'm sure they know what's best for themsleves and their careers with BA in the long term ...

I think the BA crew member form Gatwick, as quoted in the earlier post, has a good grasp of life in the "real" world.

Paul F

By: Bmused55 - 16th January 2007 at 13:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

.................
Also got to remember that yields from the UK are not what they used to be, and other areas of the world are leading the economic march, and therefore BA has this issue to contend with. Get over yourselves!!!

Hear Hear!! Agree with every word you said.

By: Skymonster - 16th January 2007 at 14:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

As someone who has been on the receiving end of what at the time I perceived were draconian cuts and erosion of terms and conditions, I can at least understand why so many of BA's cabin crew are so emotional about this. In todays world, with ever cost of living and increasingly demanding lifestyles, it is very difficult to accept something that makes your lot in life more difficult, more costly, or leaves you with less than you had before. Taking matters into one's own hands isn't always easy either - individuals deciding that they've had enough and moving on of their own volition quite often results in jumping from the frying pan and into the fire (especially true in the airline industry, unfortunately, because there are few businesses that are not facing the same challenges)

Actually, the O'Learys of this world have set the tone. The real problem is that the average man in the street doesn't care a jot about the terms and conditions of those who are providing a service, as long as the service costs him or her the minimum possible. Pay £20 more for a flight because the new recruit cabin crew member is paid next to nothing - most passengers would take the cheaper flight. As a result, those running the business, faced with rising costs (fuel, security, etc, etc) on one side and demand for lower prices on the other are forced to find some "give" in the system, and on this occasion it seems to fall to the cabin crew who are still working to rather outdated practices. Many industries and many businesses have been forced to take such measures, and now its BA's cabin crew in the firing line.

I believe that most of these situations arise as a result of failure to keep communicating or an unwillingness on one side or the other (or both) to reach a mutually acceptable compromise, more than anything else. IMHO, ongoing discussion supported by both sides having an real understanding of each other's pain points should be pursued above all else, and its only when total intransigence or a complete unwillingness of one side to recognise the issues of the other that more serious steps might need to be threatened. I can't believe that all discussions have been had (although maybe Willie Walsh is being totally intransigent), so I would hope that both sides would sit down and talk more, rather than there be a strike. Of course, even the threat of a strike can be disruptive to future business (as BA will no doubt find from its forward bookings). But if the threat of a strike forces more discussion, that won't be a bad thing because clearly there is at present still a mis-match between expectations of BA management and the future expectations of BA cabin crew.

Andy

By: OneLeft - 16th January 2007 at 18:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Firstly let me say that NO-ONE among BA cabin crew WANTS to go on strike.

We are all very aware of the impact that industrial action would have on our customers, the company and potentially ourselves in the longer term. The delight (mentioned previously) at the result of the ballot was not delight at the potential for strike action, but at the strength of the message we are able to give Willie Walsh and his team, a point that Kevin has picked up on.

As The unions are having talks Tuesday 16-01-07,I believe that this is a shot across the bows Of WW, to let him know exactly the how the workforce ( including engineering, ground , and pilots ) feel
The Staff have endured a lot in the past few years , to bring BA back into Profit, but have see little in the way of gratitude from the Management, and the latest round of ideas from management have been the straw that might have broken the camels back

The staff know that a strike will end BA, but they are fed up with WW and his predecessors who have not listen to the staff at the front end.

Skymonster of course makes a very good point about communication, and its need to be two sided. You may not be aware that because BA did not like the 12 points that our union wished to discuss all future meetings were cancelled, the reps had their ID's withdrawn, their office closed and were banned from all BA buildings. The ID's were later reinstated so that they could continue with flying duties only. BA then issued statements to the press that T&G/BASSA were refusing to talk.

On the subject of pay and conditions, I just want to address the belief that BA cabin crew all earn the equivalent of a small lottery win. You may not be aware that nearly 75% of my colleagues are on what we refer to as 'new' contracts which were introduced in 1997. On these contracts the starting salary is a little over £9000 and top pay scale is a little under £15000. This may sound a lot to some of you, but it is only comparable with most of the charter and lo-co airlines. Since BA's privatisation cabin crew have NEVER asked for a pay rise.

With regard to the 'old' contract, when this was offered it's pay scales were the industry standard, and happily provided by BA. I realise that the industry has changed greatly since then, but I don't think it is too unreasonable for anyone to want to maintain their standard of living. The changes BA are currently seeking would effectively amount to a reduction in pay and therefore to that standard of living. Most people would, I think, happily accept a pay-cut to help BA if it were a company in crisis, but as the most profitable airline in the world for the last five years clearly it is not, and this is largely due to the changes we have accepted in the past.

We ALL accept that ongoing change is always going to be a necessity within the airline, but not change for the sake of it, and certainly not forced upon us by an aggressive and bullying management. It is that management style is the bottom line with all 12 of the points raised by T&G/BASSA. WW seems to think he can run BA in the style of a latter day Michael O'Leary. I'm afraid his staff beg to differ!

Now that I have bored you all senseless, just one last point. Obviously, there will be people within the company who disagree with others, as quoted from pprune. A ballot result of 96% is unprecidented in union history, the BBCs Newsnight programme stated that high 50 to low 60 percentages is the norm. I personally don't think that many people can all be wrong.

1L.

PS:

Good luck 1L

Thanks.

By: Agent K - 18th January 2007 at 08:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

"The Staff have endured a lot in the past few years" like having an effective leadership team that have kept them in jobs and the airline afloat whilst other have gone under. The business has changed and is still changing considerably. Other departments in BA have gone through and taken on board what cabin crew are not prepared to, they are a very protected species and should consider themselves lucky. I think most of them don't even know what they voted to strike about................

By: rdc1000 - 18th January 2007 at 09:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Very well put AgentK.

I'm not sure which British Airways 1L works for, but the one I've been talking about certainly has not been the most profitable airline in the world for the last 5 years, anything but infact. Below is a SMALL sample of other airlines alongside BA....

By: OneLeft - 18th January 2007 at 10:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

rdc1000, I'm not sure where your figures are from but if they are right I stand corrected. I was merely quoting the Head of Inflight Service, the department I work for. They still don't exactly make depressing reading.

"Other departments in BA have gone through and taken on board what cabin crew are not prepared to

EVERY department has had to do it's bit. IFS has delivered a greater saving per head than any other department in the company since 2003.

I think most of them don't even know what they voted to strike about................

What a rediculous and insulting statement that is.

1L.

By: rdc1000 - 18th January 2007 at 10:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

rdc1000, I'm not sure where your figures are from but if they are right I stand corrected. I was merely quoting the Head of Inflight Service, the department I work for. They still don't exactly make depressing reading.

They come from Air Transport Intelligence, who collect the data from the airlines, it is the same data that is used for the Flight International Top 50 airlines etc.

It is potentially depressing when you consider that WITHOUT the recent changes at the airline, it would still be around the figures of 2001/2002. I think you'd acceot there have been SIGNIFICANT changes at the airline that have helped it achieve the later figures?

By: OneLeft - 18th January 2007 at 12:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Have I not stated throughout my posts that I (and my colleagues) fully accept change in the industry and the company, both past and future? Cabin crew, and I believe all other BA staff, accept the need for change.

BA has however under WW gone from a company that changed through necessity, reasoned discussion and agreement, to one that wants to change by force and aggression, and mostly to cover the cost of recruiting more managers and director bonuses, not to invest in you the passenger (have you seen what we now laughingly call full-service on shorthaul flights?). It is, as I have said previously, that fundemental change in attitude that is at the root of this dispute.

Let me repeat NO-ONE thinks that a strike is a good idea and NO-ONE wants to see this get that far. But when the company refused to talk a strong message had to be given. I believe it was, and the next day the company sat down to talk.

1L.

By: kevinwm - 18th January 2007 at 13:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

One left ,
Exactly what you said is what I have heard from a BA employe , they are fed up not being listen to by the managment,
The same Managment implament Ideas, that cost large sums of money for little if any good returns, which BA can ill aford to Lose, these same mangers get their large bonuses at the expense of the the front line crews

They Do Not want to Strike , BUT its the only option they have to get the managers to listen ,

By: Agent K - 19th January 2007 at 07:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

One left ,
Exactly what you said is what I have heard from a BA employe , they are fed up not being listen to by the managment,
The same Managment implament Ideas, that cost large sums of money for little if any good returns, which BA can ill aford to Lose, these same mangers get their large bonuses at the expense of the the front line crews

They Do Not want to Strike , BUT its the only option they have to get the managers to listen ,

Is this not the self same management, who, acknowledged and clearly with the hard work and support of the staff have turned BA round during difficult times in the airline industry to reduce, significantly debt (down from over £6Billion in 2001 to near £1Billion now) whilst improving profits and greatly increasing security of the company. These seem pretty good returns to me. Investment?, over £100M in New Club World, possibly £15 Billion over the next 10 years (The Times, Thurdsday) in new fleet purchases?