Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fear of flying courses?

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • cloud_9
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2005
    • 2418

    Fear of flying courses?

    Hi all, sorry to bore you with another thread, however, I have a question about fear of flying courses in the UK.

    Can anyone tell me how many airlines/companies currently offer fear of flying courses in the UK - my particular area of interest would be in the South-East of England?

    And also what type of aircraft they use for the short flights that they offer?

    I know that Virgin, BA and Flybe offer courses that cost around 150-200 per person, but am not sure of any others so any help would be much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.
  • andrewm
    Rank 2 Registered User
    • Jan 2000
    • 4456

    #2
    I believe the BA one is the most sucessfull. Do you have a fear of flying??
    Regards, Andrew

    Comment

    • steve rowell
      Expat Geordie
      • Apr 2003
      • 13281

      #3
      How can anyone have a fear of flying, i,ve been flying for about fifty years and still find it a marvellous experience
      Best Regards Steve

      Comment

      • cheesebag
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Feb 2004
        • 551

        #4
        You're OK, Dan-Air are no longer around.....

        Comment

        • cloud_9
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Sep 2005
          • 2418

          #5
          Originally posted by andrewm
          Do you have a fear of flying??
          No, I don't have a fear of flying, its just that I am thinking that if I can't make it in the industry as a manager of my low-cost airline that I have got plans for, then I may consider thinking of setting up my own courses for the South-East of England.

          Originally posted by steve rowell
          How can anyone have a fear of flying, i,ve been flying for about fifty years and still find it a marvellous experience
          HOW CAN YOU SAY THIS?

          There are plenty of people out there that have a fear of flying, and for many reasons...

          a fear of closed in spaces (claustrophobia), such as that of an aircraft cabin;
          a fear of heights (acrophobia);
          a feeling of not being in control (since a passenger is not driving the plane and can't get out at will);
          previous traumatizing experiences while in flight;
          fear of hijacking or terrorism;
          fear of deep venous thrombosis;
          fear of turbulence; etc.

          And just to prove it...

          Dennis Bergkamp, Aretha Franklin, Whoopi Goldberg, R. Kelly, Stanley Kubrick and Billy Bob Thornton are just a few famous people that share the same fear.

          I still need someone to answer my main question though:

          What aircraft would I need to use, if I was to offer an introductory flight on my courses?

          Comment

          • adamdowley
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jul 2003
            • 1399

            #6
            Originally posted by cloud_9

            What aircraft would I need to use, if I was to offer an introductory flight on my courses?

            a helicopter would probably be what i would use, but im no expert.

            you could sit them in it, start it up and begin to hover just a couple of feet off the ground for a while, and then climb and hover at about 30ft for a while, slowly increasing the height of the hover as your client becomes more relaxed and comfortable.

            then move into forward flight for a bit at a low altitude around the airfield, slowly getting higher and higher and moving away from the airfield.

            with a helicopter you can moreorless land immediately if the client starts to panic - with a fixed wing, its not so easy.

            then, move onto fixed wing aircraft on their next session.

            thats my idea, anyway

            hope that helps

            Comment

            • T5
              T5
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2000
              • 6822

              #7
              Originally posted by cloud_9
              I am thinking that if I can't make it in the industry as a manager of my low-cost airline...
              I'd go for plan B then. I don't think there is any room for more low cost airlines.
              Michael

              Comment

              • cloud_9
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Sep 2005
                • 2418

                #8
                Originally posted by adamdowley
                a helicopter would probably be what i would use, but im no expert.
                Thanks for your suggestion, but a helicopter would not provide people with enough reasurrance that they are not afraid of flying compared to using a commercial airliner...

                I was thinking about a BAe146, but any other suggestions would be appreciated.

                Comment

                • im going in
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • May 2003
                  • 155

                  #9
                  Monarch are currently operating some on behalf of Virgin, and are using the 757 and 321. It all depends on demand, sub-charter rates and aircraft avail.

                  Comment

                  • andrewm
                    Rank 2 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 4456

                    #10
                    cloud 9 the way BA run it is they have pilots and well known shrinks talk to the crowd and then take them up in i think an A319 or B737 and with like commentary from PF (i.e. one not doing ATC) of what all the noises are.

                    At roughly 235 each (BA price) for say 150 people (rough seat num of all econ B737/A319) thats 35,250.

                    Your Aircraft lease for that will be approx 20,000 for a flight (depends on airport using) and you may have to pay for for a live commentary as they may feel the need to put a third pilot in to do this.

                    Then for the whole day a shrink will set you back at least 10k for the kind of one that could remove their fears in one day. Then you have to get a Captain to talk them through what is going on. Remember the more senior the more they will trust them. So thats going to be at least 1-3K for a day. Then there are your general helpers costs which at average of 10 an hour (industry standard cost price) 500 for the day. Then your Marketing Costs of at least 700 (these are hard to reach ppl remember) to market to them then the costs of a website which is probably around 100 a year before the design of the site. Then the Hotel Room Rental and AV Stuff and Buffet lunch would be approx 2k.

                    So you income is 35,250
                    Total Expenses is 36,300

                    Profit Minus 1050
                    Regards, Andrew

                    Comment

                    • cloud_9
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Sep 2005
                      • 2418

                      #11
                      Originally posted by andrewm
                      cloud 9 the way BA run it is they have pilots and well known shrinks talk to the crowd and then take them up in i think an A319 or B737 and with like commentary from PF (i.e. one not doing ATC) of what all the noises are.

                      At roughly 235 each (BA price) for say 150 people (rough seat num of all econ B737/A319) thats 35,250.

                      Your Aircraft lease for that will be approx 20,000 for a flight (depends on airport using) and you may have to pay for for a live commentary as they may feel the need to put a third pilot in to do this.

                      Then for the whole day a shrink will set you back at least 10k for the kind of one that could remove their fears in one day. Then you have to get a Captain to talk them through what is going on. Remember the more senior the more they will trust them. So thats going to be at least 1-3K for a day. Then there are your general helpers costs which at average of 10 an hour (industry standard cost price) 500 for the day. Then your Marketing Costs of at least 700 (these are hard to reach ppl remember) to market to them then the costs of a website which is probably around 100 a year before the design of the site. Then the Hotel Room Rental and AV Stuff and Buffet lunch would be approx 2k.

                      So you income is 35,250
                      Total Expenses is 36,300

                      Profit Minus 1050
                      Thanks for the info, I now understand why it costs the customer so much...

                      How can the airline courses that BA/Virgin offer be making a profit then if their expenses outway the income?

                      Would using only one location as a fixed base help to reduce costs? I was thinking of using a private airport such as Biggin Hill as my target audience is the South-East of UK.

                      Comment

                      • Avgas
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 91

                        #12
                        There are no airliners based at Biggin Hill so you would need to pay for a positioning flight. That won't come cheap!

                        Comment

                        • EGNM
                          Sadact
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 3875

                          #13
                          Originally posted by cloud_9
                          Hi all, sorry to bore you with another thread, however, I have a question about fear of flying courses in the UK.

                          Can anyone tell me how many airlines/companies currently offer fear of flying courses in the UK - my particular area of interest would be in the South-East of England?

                          And also what type of aircraft they use for the short flights that they offer?

                          I know that Virgin, BA and Flybe offer courses that cost around 150-200 per person, but am not sure of any others so any help would be much appreciated.

                          Thanks in advance.
                          So working 100days a year the Capt is on 300,000 per annum is he... some of those figures are pure make believe... Not bad for a bog standard A319 / 737 Skipper...

                          Even freelance guys wouldn't charge half of that for them types.
                          Brgds
                          EGNM

                          Comment

                          • im going in
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • May 2003
                            • 155

                            #14
                            The 4 fear of flying courses on Monarch are all scheduled for 30mins. The A.C.M.I rate for a 757 is approx 2100 pbh, so the costs that andrewm quotes for an aircraft lease are too high. All you need to schedule is 30mins to 1hour, there is no point in going up for longer incase they haven't conquered their fear. Also when Monarch operated the flight last sunday out of LTN, there were only 90 pax onboard.

                            Comment

                            • Hugh Jarse
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2005
                              • 193

                              #15
                              I'm going in has the right sort of cost for a plane per hour. A 767 normally costs US$4500 per block hour to operate, wet. If you did have to pay for the crew on top then the normal rate for a skipper is GBP400 and GBP250 for an FO. Just as a ball park figure this will earn you more like 12-14k but then Airbus never were particularly good with numbers especially as they are offering to pay airlines to fly the A340!

                              I'd go with a 757 as they have plenty of seats, and are very cheap to run these days.

                              BA use 3 pilots on the flight deck, 2 flying and the 3rd Captain is the one that gives the talk before the flight also talks them through what is happening. I don't think the Physc would be used all day and would expect more like an hourly rate around GBP150. I don't think they are there to remove the fear of flying but to explain where the fears come from.

                              Comment

                              • EGNM
                                Sadact
                                • Jan 2000
                                • 3875

                                #16
                                Much more reasonable on the prices - I only work with turboprop but even then you were taking at least a dozen times over them - Y64 vs Y150 on A319?
                                Brgds
                                EGNM

                                Comment

                                • cloud_9
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Sep 2005
                                  • 2418

                                  #17
                                  Sorry for the long response, but here goes...

                                  Originally posted by Avgas
                                  There are no airliners based at Biggin Hill so you would need to pay for a positioning flight. That won't come cheap!
                                  Biggin Hill doesn't have any airlines cos there is currently a restriction prohibiting commerical flights from the airport due to residents concerns about noise and pollution, however, it can handle up to 737's. They are trying to get this ban lifted.

                                  Having said this, it would be a privately run business, and we wouldn't do flights on every course, as I want to market to those people that may not want to pay the added cost of the flight.

                                  Virgin charge 199, which includes the flight. I am thinking of offering a course at 99 that people can then top-up with a flight for the additional cost - can't give an exact figure until I have worked out what a/c I would use.

                                  Originally posted by im going in
                                  Also when Monarch operated the flight last sunday out of LTN, there were only 90 pax onboard.
                                  I was more thinking towards a BAe 146, as it can hold up to 100 pax.

                                  Originally posted by Hugh Jarse
                                  I'd go with a 757 as they have plenty of seats, and are very cheap to run these days.
                                  The BAe 146 is a smaller aircraft than a 757, but would it be cheaper to operate in the long term?

                                  Originally posted by EGNM
                                  Much more reasonable on the prices - I only work with turboprop but even then you were taking at least a dozen times over them - Y64 vs Y150 on A319?
                                  As I said about someone's comment about a helicopter, I don't think that using a turboprop would help, as the experience in the air is different, there are different noises (which is the biggest phobia related to fear of flying!).

                                  Comment

                                  • cloud_9
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Sep 2005
                                    • 2418

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by T5
                                    I'd go for plan B then. I don't think there is any room for more low cost airlines.
                                    I have just spent 15 minutes talking to a man who was on BA's International Consultancy board for 8 years, and he has said exactly that, so thanks for the advice.

                                    Comment

                                    • cloud_9
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Sep 2005
                                      • 2418

                                      #19
                                      Can anyone find out and tell me what the average monthly ACIM lease rate is for a BAe 146 or Avro RJX100?

                                      Many thanks.

                                      Comment

                                      Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                      Collapse

                                       

                                      Working...
                                      X