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  • Newforest
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Apr 2005
    • 8893

    Ethiopian Max 8 crash

    https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=20190310-0

    Breaking news that this plane crashed two hours ago with 157 occupants. Aircraft is written off, no details of casualties yet. Plane was four months old and contact was lost six minutes after take off. R.I.P.
    http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.83 times!
  • ananda
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2010
    • 519

    #2
    Indication reported that the plane have eratic speed patern after take off. This reminds too much like the Lion Air Max 8 crash.
    Not a good development for Max 8 and Boeing.

    Comment

    • topspeed
      Get on uppah !
      • Jan 2009
      • 2660

      #3
      Well Dreamliner and this possibly will effectively end Boeing as an aeroplane maker...IMHO.
      If it looks good, it will fly good !
      -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


      http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

      Comment

      • Newforest
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Apr 2005
        • 8893

        #4
        This accident will have almost nothing to do with the future of Boeing. The engineers will find the problem and fix it for 100 %. Some airlines have grounded their planes as a precaution. One black box, damaged, has been found, not clear yet which one it is.
        http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.83 times!

        Comment

        • 27vet
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Nov 2009
          • 2700

          #5
          A terrible tragedy. R.I.P. and condolences to the bereaved.

          Both flight recorders have been retrieved apparently.
          sigpicHindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

          Comment

          • topspeed
            Get on uppah !
            • Jan 2009
            • 2660

            #6
            Originally posted by Newforest View Post
            This accident will have almost nothing to do with the future of Boeing. The engineers will find the problem and fix it for 100 %. Some airlines have grounded their planes as a precaution. One black box, damaged, has been found, not clear yet which one it is.
            Stocks surged 10% !
            If it looks good, it will fly good !
            -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


            http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

            Comment

            • J Boyle
              With malice towards none
              • Oct 2004
              • 9808

              #7
              Originally posted by topspeed View Post
              Well Dreamliner and this possibly will effectively end Boeing as an aeroplane maker...IMHO.
              And why would this be any different than AF 447?
              We seem to get the same message anytime there is a Boeing crash.

              It would take a major airframe design issue to hurt Boeing, this is likely a systems issue if it is the same as the other recent MAX crash.
              At any rate Boeing is well diversified with many programs, civil and military.
              Sorry to disappoint you.





              There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

              Comment

              • Newforest
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Apr 2005
                • 8893

                #8
                Would like to take credit for that, but my iinformation on Dow Boeing shows a fall of 6.5 % ?!
                http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.83 times!

                Comment

                • ananda
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 519

                  #9
                  This accidents involving Max8, will not put an end to Boeing. However it will give more momentum to A320NEO family.
                  When A320 got accidents like example the one involve Air Asia A320, it make some potential buyers switch to 737. However for Airlines that already depends with 737...or A320 they will not change easily like that.

                  Lion Air despite some heated word exchange with Boeing after the MAX8 accident...where Boeing indicating the fault on Lion Air maintenance, and Lion Air exchange it with potential faulty parts on MAX8, send threatened to move to A320..in reality for Low Cost Airlines it won't be easy to change fleets as their cost structures related to one or maximum two kind of aircraft in the fleet.

                  It will be interesting to see if this also provide some additional momentum to C919 or MC-21..
                  World Airlines just need alternative from 737 and 320.
                  ​​​

                  Comment

                  • topspeed
                    Get on uppah !
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 2660

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Newforest View Post
                    Would like to take credit for that, but my iinformation on Dow Boeing shows a fall of 6.5 % ?!
                    It already dropped 20% in January; https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...n-january.aspx
                    If it looks good, it will fly good !
                    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                    Comment

                    • D1566
                      Needs retiring.
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 2124

                      #11
                      Banned in Britain for now;

                      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47536502
                      Martin

                      Comment

                      • halloweene
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 4351

                        #12
                        Aswell as France and Germany, china, australia etc.
                        Last edited by halloweene; 12th March 2019, 15:54.

                        Comment

                        • halloweene
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 4351

                          #13
                          Wehn they changed the engines (bigger), they also had to change their position on the wing. This changed quite obviously changed the aircraft behaviour and they applied a patch instead of rewriting the FCS. Result, pb with tail satbilizers. Do not know at all it this is the cause. It might be.

                          Comment

                          • Moggy C
                            Moderator
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 20534

                            #14
                            From a good source elsewhere

                            Basically the problem is that as they've lengthened the aircraft and added larger diameter engines, the aircraft's pitch stability has become an issue. At high angles of stack the engine nacelles themselves create lift forward of the CG, causing the aircraft to pitch up into a stall with no pilot input. This is obviously streng verboten in the certification requirements hence MCAS. Stability augmentation isn't a new thing - the 737 already has a speed trim system and a Mach trim system from the early days, it's just the new one is subject to some nasty failure modes, about which some duff assumptions were made, and nobody thought it was important to tell the crews flying it anything about it.
                            Lots of people have died. It might be more respectful if this didn't continue as a childish fanboi bicker-fest.

                            Moggy
                            "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

                            Comment

                            • Bradburger
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 1459

                              #15
                              This first video explains the MCAS system, and was made at the time of the Lion Air 737 Max accident: -



                              And more info on the trim system (made in response to recent findings of the Ethiopian 737 Max crash): -



                              Cheers

                              Paul
                              The most usless commodity in aerobatics is the amount of sky above you!

                              Comment

                              • J Boyle
                                With malice towards none
                                • Oct 2004
                                • 9808

                                #16
                                You might (or might not...depending on your level of hatred for Boeing) find this interesting, it arrived in my mailbox this afternoon.

                                It's a non-technical statement from Boeing.
                                Below it, there is a link, entitled "Software enhansement", to another more technical statement on the MCAS issue.
                                If I understand it correctly, the MCAS system is covered in the handbook and comes into operationally when you're flying outside the normal envelope.

                                http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737...e.page#/letter

                                Last edited by J Boyle; 19th March 2019, 22:19.
                                There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                                Comment

                                • ananda
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Oct 2010
                                  • 519

                                  #17
                                  https://www-cnbc-com.cdn.ampproject....-max-jets.html

                                  Don't know if this is going to be contagious or not, but Garuda as one of considerable user to 737 seems begin to change heart with it's main narrow body.
                                  Their subsidiary CityLink low cost carrier already using A320/A320 Neo.
                                  Perhaps it's one of their strategy to uniformise their narrow body Airliner ? Will remain to be seen.

                                  Anyway they say the keep negotiating with Boeing to change their Max 8 order to another type of Boeing Airliner.

                                  ​​​​​

                                  Comment

                                  • longshot
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Aug 2008
                                    • 1676

                                    #18
                                    The Atlantic has a listing of pilots anonymous reports filed in the US* about the 737 MAX (mostly after the LIONAIR crash). (* to the NASA run Aviation Safety Reporting System). Reports #3 and 4 are the most critical of the MAX training and handbook . https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/20...37-max/584791/

                                    Comment

                                    • TomcatViP
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Nov 2011
                                      • 6122

                                      #19
                                      Well, everybody that is interested by flying "his/her" plane would have found them (the ASRS reports). It is noteworthy that pilot are complaining that someone with the sole knowledge of piloting a jet would be required in front (particularly about #4)... I don't want to be hard but the the MCAS was something that everybody should have known if in charge. It's a really basic system (iterated you would say... perhaps) that have been among jet aviation since the age of the B-47 (1947+).

                                      IMOHO there is only shame to claim for any pilot that persist to go in that direction.
                                      Last edited by TomcatViP; 2nd April 2019, 06:37.

                                      Comment

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