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Fatal Lion Air flight crash.

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  • Newforest
    Rank 5 Registered User

    Fatal Lion Air flight crash.

    News is arriving that a Lion Air Flight with 189 people on board has crashed into the sea off Sumatra. The 737 plane is believed to be new and was delivered in August. The search for any survivors has started. I have been round the world 11.83 times!
  • 27vet
    Rank 5 Registered User

    Terrible news. R.I.P. and condolences to the bereaved.

    Hoping they get to the bottom of this very quickly since the wreckage is in shallow waters, the FDR and CVR should be able to provide a lot of information.
    sigpicHindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...


    • Newforest
      Rank 5 Registered User


      Another fatality to add to the sad total, a volunteer diver. I have been round the world 11.83 times!


      • TomcatViP
        Rank 5 Registered User

        Faulty AoA sensor alert

        Boeing has issued a safety message to pilots on how to handle erroneous data from a key sensor on its 737 MAX aircraft in the wake of last week's deadly Lion Air crash in Indonesia.

        The Chicago-based manufacturer said investigators probing the crash of Flight JT610, in which all 189 on board were killed, had found that one of the "angle of attack" sensors on the brand new plane had provided incorrect readings.
        And from Boeing (
        Boeing is providing support and technical assistance to the Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee and other government authorities responsible for the investigation into Lion Air flight 610.

        The Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee has indicated that Lion Air flight 610 experienced erroneous input from one of its AOA (Angle of Attack) sensors.

        Whenever appropriate, Boeing, as part of its usual processes, issues bulletins or makes recommendations regarding the operation of its aircraft.

        On November 6, 2018, Boeing issued an Operations Manual Bulletin (OMB) directing operators to existing flight crew procedures to address circumstances where there is erroneous input from an AOA sensor.

        The investigation into Lion Air flight 610 is ongoing and Boeing continues to cooperate fully and provide technical assistance at the request and under the direction of government authorities investigating the accident.
        Last edited by TomcatViP; 7th November 2018, 14:47.


        • TomcatViP
          Rank 5 Registered User

          Amazing news today (reuters): Lion Air crash scenario wasn't covered in Boeing 737 MAX manual, pilot unions say

          Pilots of Boeing 737 MAX aircraft worldwide were not warned of a potentially dangerous feature suspected of playing a role in last months deadly Lion Air crash in Indonesia, investigators and pilots unions said.
          Either I don't have the full picture, either I don't get it at all but stick pusher have been fielded on bombers and fighter jets since the early generation of jets (before finding their way in some airliners); most of them flown by 19 years old Joe's. Does those pilot union implies that the idea of counter acting the stick pusher in case of a false system alarm have to be taught in school for anyone to understand that? Are ppl landing on water when GPS are down? Have we seen anyone opening the side windows in flight because of a faulty speed indicator?

          I don't get it.

          Aircraft designers who install stick pushers recognize that there is the risk that a stick pusher may activate erroneously when not required to do so. The designer must make provision for the flight crew to deal with unwanted activation of a stick pusher. In some aircraft equipped with stick pushers, the stick pusher can be overpowered by the pilot. In other aircraft, the stick pusher system can be manually disabled by the pilot.
          When a manual is not correctly printed (some of them are even subcontracted), Pilots (and the hundred of us in back cabin that do grant them for their professionalism) are gonna crash?

          But let's go back on Lion's case:
          Pilots could stop this automated response [(the stick pusher action)] by pressing two buttons if the system behaved unexpectedly, but questions have been raised about how well prepared they were for such an automatic reaction and how much time they had to respond.
          Even though investigators say this problem was not covered in the operating manual, pilots did have access to a checklist designed to turn off errant systems when the plane started nosing downwards at the wrong time, said Soejono, a Lion Air instructor [...].

          If this is another cultural thing like AF447, the proof is there that we have a systemic failure... in our pilot selection process.

          (you can read here for more)

          One day, if all that goes on, all plane's documentation will be amended like this:

          *****************UNIVERSAL CHECK LIST ADD-ON PROCEDURE, YEAR 2057*************************

          - open startup sequence checklist
          - follow the procedure reading the list of actions line by line
          - at the end paragraph before setting full automation with the appropriate described action, open cockpit door
          - Yell for help (choose a sturdy and muscular passenger at your own convenience)
          - With your PiC (Passenger in Charge) go to the cabin door, open it and make sure the PiC understand closing procedure
          - go back in cockpit, press button firing-up full automation and wait for the bickering red light then turn back toward your selected passenger
          - smile at him/her (or as you wish repeat your company welcome sentence)
          - Let him/her kick you out of the plane
          - During your flight time down the tarmac, please, invite him/her politely to not forget to close back the cabin door.

          Enjoy your flight (the time it last).
          Last edited by TomcatViP; 14th November 2018, 00:34.


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