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Pusher prop...the way of the future ?

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  • topspeed
    Get on uppah !
    • Jan 2009
    • 2656

    Pusher prop...the way of the future ?

    Bill Lear had it; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRdtCLOILp4

    Almost had it.

    EADS is going for it.

    http://inhabitat.com/eads-rethinks-t...rcraft-design/

    I recall mr. Gallaudet had it already 100 years ago.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edson_Fessenden_Gallaudet

    http://gallaudetfamily.com/aircraft.htm
    Last edited by topspeed; 1st October 2014, 08:59.
    If it looks good, it will fly good !
    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/
  • topspeed
    Get on uppah !
    • Jan 2009
    • 2656

    #2
    Anyway to cleverly incorporate the pusher prop to Burnelli theories of the safe passenger aircraft ?

    http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/chrono1.htm

    http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/ch_rb1.htm

    These look pretty cool !

    Click image for larger version

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    Chalmers Goodlin ( Bell X-1 test pilot ) was for them;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgWx87cYgco

    Awesome footage;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbA_fyCeIh4



    Apparently something has happened;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u49_CrFqBh8

    This is just one way to look at it;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X03egCajBnw


    How about keeping the more BURNELLI LOOK on it ?

    Having props for efficiency ?
    Last edited by topspeed; 16th October 2014, 10:14.
    If it looks good, it will fly good !
    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

    Comment

    • 27vet
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Nov 2009
      • 2697

      #3
      Interesting, I wonder if we will see those kind of planes in our lifetime? Whenever a new design offers a radical improvement of some or other characteristic, it is immediately suppressed.
      sigpicHindsight is what you see from the tailgunner's position...

      Comment

      • topspeed
        Get on uppah !
        • Jan 2009
        • 2656

        #4
        Originally posted by 27vet View Post
        Interesting, I wonder if we will see those kind of planes in our lifetime? Whenever a new design offers a radical improvement of some or other characteristic, it is immediately suppressed.
        Right....I think Burnelli was onto something. He seemed to have also convinced Chalmers "SLICK " Goodling the test pilot from THE RIGHT STUFF even !

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u49_CrFqBh8
        If it looks good, it will fly good !
        -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


        http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

        Comment

        • garryrussell
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jun 2008
          • 656

          #5
          The Vari-Eze and Long Ez have a pusher prop. Piaggio did it with the P.166 and of course the Convair B-36. Every now and then it crops up but never catches on.

          Comment

          • topspeed
            Get on uppah !
            • Jan 2009
            • 2656

            #6
            Originally posted by garryrussell View Post
            The Vari-Eze and Long Ez have a pusher prop. Piaggio did it with the P.166 and of course the Convair B-36. Every now and then it crops up but never catches on.
            Don't forget the push pull Voyager..it flew at take off with only 0.041 kW/hp power to weight ratio...and made it around the world.

            Also B-36 Peacemaker was a pusher prop design.
            If it looks good, it will fly good !
            -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


            http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

            Comment

            • topspeed
              Get on uppah !
              • Jan 2009
              • 2656

              #7
              Originally posted by topspeed View Post
              Don't forget the push pull Voyager..it flew at take off with only 0.041 kW/hp power to weight ratio...and made it around the world.

              Also B-36 Peacemaker was a pusher prop design.

              errr....make that 0.041 kW/kg ! Sorry folks !
              If it looks good, it will fly good !
              -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


              http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

              Comment

              • Pickled Wings
                Rank 3 Registered User
                • Oct 2014
                • 27

                #8
                The Piaggio P.180 Avanti is a pusher prop and seems to be successful, there's a fair number of them flying and it's still in production so far as I know.

                Does anyone know if any companies out there are still experimenting with unducted fan engines, or was that just a fad that died quietly?
                http://pickledwings.wordpress.com/

                http://beyondprague.wordpress.com/

                Comment

                • garryrussell
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 656

                  #9
                  One problem with the Avanti is it is very irritating noise wise.

                  200 and something built since early 199's is not particularly successful.

                  Comment

                  • garryrussell
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jun 2008
                    • 656

                    #10
                    The unducted fan seemed to have fail due to the very high noise levels. There was a MD-80 and a Boeing 727 with one fitted...the MD-90 was originally going to be the -80 series with UDF.

                    The UDF was louder than the remaining jet engines. The UDF BN Islander was soon converted to conventional engines.

                    There was the Optica and that buzzed around like an angry bee

                    Comment

                    • topspeed
                      Get on uppah !
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 2656

                      #11
                      Originally posted by garryrussell View Post
                      The unducted fan seemed to have fail due to the very high noise levels. There was a MD-80 and a Boeing 727 with one fitted...the MD-90 was originally going to be the -80 series with UDF.

                      The UDF was louder than the remaining jet engines. The UDF BN Islander was soon converted to conventional engines.

                      There was the Optica and that buzzed around like an angry bee


                      LZ129 also had pusher props.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Discussion; https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/questio...5122812AAYKi7G

                      Also the FLYER !

                      Last edited by topspeed; 22nd October 2014, 08:07.
                      If it looks good, it will fly good !
                      -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                      http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                      Comment

                      • TooCool_12f
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 3319

                        #12
                        it's known for ages, but if it isn't used in commercial aviation, it's mostly because of high noise levels and lower operational altitude and top speed... at some point, you just can't go any faster as your propeller looses efficiency when speed increases. That's why most commercial aircraft use turbofans, where the fan provides thrust on take off (very high level of static thrust) and as altitude and speed increase, the "turbojet part of the engine" takes over as it is the only way to get sufficient thrust to go high and fast enough for long flights

                        for relatively short flights, the trade off can be acceptable, but do it with a transatlantic flight for example, and you'll get delays counted in hours for a single flight.

                        Comment

                        • Moggy C
                          Moderator
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 20534

                          #13
                          The noise issue on many pushers is apparently a function of the prop 'chopping-up' the exhaust stream.

                          Moggy
                          "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

                          Comment

                          • topspeed
                            Get on uppah !
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 2656

                            #14
                            I am not possessed with the noise issue...but as for now I am with these; http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=220

                            It says Helios went 170 mph ( Mach 0.25 ) at 98 000 ft using 24 kW...and it is a solar powered craft ( 930 kg / 300 kg payload ).

                            How fast could they go if you have 2335 m2 and thus 1030 kW max out put ( at high altitude round about noon ) with todays solar panels ?

                            I estimate 500 km/h with pusher props at really high !


                            ----

                            John Stringfellow was a pusher type plane fore runner; http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargra...ingfellow.html
                            Last edited by topspeed; 23rd October 2014, 16:01.
                            If it looks good, it will fly good !
                            -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                            http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                            Comment

                            • silver fox
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • May 2008
                              • 693

                              #15
                              Surely the reason for pusher props not being majorly successful is the simplest one of all, in that airflow from a puller prop over control surfaces gives control before flying speed is reached, that was one of the main differences that pilots found when converting from piston engine fighters to the then new jets.

                              Comment

                              • topspeed
                                Get on uppah !
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 2656

                                #16
                                Originally posted by ushangar112
                                Think of propellers and you might immediately conjure images of Indiana Jones, World War II flying aces and creaky crop dusters. Propeller-driven craft are often perceived as loud.
                                I predict a solar powered propeller plane will brake the speed of sound in level flight right about in the altitude on 40 km ( 132 000 ft ) in 10-20 years.

                                It has to be aerodynamically refined and big..very large and combo of the newest 40+ % efficient panels and 20+ % efficient panels that are now in the lab.

                                I have actually counted it is possible.
                                If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                Comment

                                • garryrussell
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jun 2008
                                  • 656

                                  #17
                                  Its not a case of propeller aircraft being concieved as loud but in this case the fact that pusher props make an annoying noise...somtimes loud noises can be pleasant . Its not a volume issue although that tend to be more noisey than tractor props.

                                  Comment

                                  • topspeed
                                    Get on uppah !
                                    • Jan 2009
                                    • 2656

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by garryrussell View Post
                                    Its not a case of propeller aircraft being concieved as loud but in this case the fact that pusher props make an annoying noise...somtimes loud noises can be pleasant . Its not a volume issue although that tend to be more noisey than tractor props.

                                    If you have nine meter dia props they don't even have to turn very fast to reach the speed of sound...and at high where Baumgarter and Eustace broke the speed of sound without an aeroplane there won't be much of the sound either the air is so thin.


                                    Pic from here; http://mesoslaunch.blogspot.fi/
                                    Attached Files
                                    Last edited by topspeed; 1st November 2014, 14:21.
                                    If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment

                                    • garryrussell
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jun 2008
                                      • 656

                                      #19
                                      The noise is an issue at low level not altitude. Airport tend to be built on the ground and aircraft landing are usually pretty low...hence the nuisance.

                                      Comment

                                      • topspeed
                                        Get on uppah !
                                        • Jan 2009
                                        • 2656

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by garryrussell View Post
                                        The noise is an issue at low level not altitude. Airport tend to be built on the ground and aircraft landing are usually pretty low...hence the nuisance.
                                        I understand this but solar powered aerodynes seem to fly very slow at low and thus make no noise whatsoever.
                                        If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                        -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                        http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                        Comment

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