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  • Peter Garner
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Dec 2007
    • 404

    Originally posted by benhongh View Post
    Wouldn't a well-organised hijacker have collected and incapacitated all personal communication devices from the passengers, before all else? Surely you can't track a phone with its battery taken out can you?
    How long would it take to confiscate maybe 150 - 200 mobile phones from their owners inside an airliner? 2 Minutes; 2 hours? And no-one had the chance to send a message to their loved-ones in the meantime explaining them what's happening?

    Comment

    • SimonR
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jul 2011
      • 397

      I was thinking about this because it's one of the most perplexing aspects of it - however, what if the passengers didn't know that there was anything wrong? People don't txt/call from aircraft under normal circumstances anyway so if they don't suspect anything they've no reason to.

      The pilot (for example) could take the aircraft off-course, act as if there was nothing going on and the first thing the passengers would know was either (hopefully) when they landed in the wrong airport or when the aircraft was no longer in the air for any other reason. It's a bit too late to txt then.
      Last edited by Deano; 15th March 2014, 13:20. Reason: COC RULE 14
      "A Flight is much like a short life.... So is a Life just like a, er , long flight...?" - Bernard Chabbert, Flying Legends, (Saturday) 2015.

      Comment

      • mongu
        Director
        • Jan 2000
        • 2918

        For me one of the more bewildering aspects is why there was no GPS tracking of the aircraft - or why these doesn't seem to be a common policy. Trucking companies routinely track their $400,000 trucks with GPS - the control centre could tell you where any of their hundreds of trucks are at any one time. Why would you not do this for an aircraft?
        Skiaynin Vannin

        Comment

        • Peter Garner
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Dec 2007
          • 404

          Originally posted by SimonR View Post
          I was thinking about this because it's one of the most perplexing aspects of it - however, what if the passengers didn't know that there was anything wrong? People don't txt/call from aircraft under normal circumstances anyway so if they don't suspect anything they've no reason to.

          The pilot (for example) could take the aircraft off-course, act as if there was nothing going on and the first thing the passengers would know was either (hopefully) when they landed in the wrong airport or when the aircraft was no longer in the air for any other reason. It's a bit too late to txt then.
          The aircraft took off after midnight and was well over an hour into its flight so about half of the passengers might have been asleep anyway. Even if the pilot altered course and headed in the opposite direction you'd suddenly have the moon on the other side (provided it was there). How many aware passengers that were not asleep would it take to notice that? According to news reports the aircraft changed altitute "drastically" several times. I've heard news reports that stated that several hours after the aircraft was reported missing, people tried to contact their relatives by their mobile phones - and they even rang! I believe that this has been denied since though, I'm not sure. However this gave me the vision of luggage-cases floating on the sea with a phone inside it ringing. If the aircraft was still in the air then, why didn't passengers hear their phones ringing?
          Would it be possible for changes in alitude and course of direction taking place unnoticed by 230 passengers (well at least those that were still awake) for seven hours? It would have been daylight after these seven hours had passed. Surely the aircraft would have been expected to have been over land by then. Apparently it wasn't.

          Comment

          • topspeed
            Get on uppah !
            • Jan 2009
            • 2659

            I saw in another video this door with a round window in the middle.
            Attached Files
            If it looks good, it will fly good !
            -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


            http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

            Comment

            • Alpha Bravo
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Mar 2012
              • 622

              I can't see how it could have overflown a significant area of landmass without being seen on radar. If it was flying over countries with its transponder switched off, and if it was spotted on radar, it certainly would have been challenged to identify itself, maybe even the airforce of whichever nation it was flying over to scramble fighters to intercept and identify the aircraft it it made no response.

              Comment

              • Alpha Bravo
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Mar 2012
                • 622

                Originally posted by mongu View Post
                For me one of the more bewildering aspects is why there was no GPS tracking of the aircraft - or why these doesn't seem to be a common policy. Trucking companies routinely track their $400,000 trucks with GPS - the control centre could tell you where any of their hundreds of trucks are at any one time. Why would you not do this for an aircraft?
                I've been wondering about the very same thing. I can't believe in this day and age there is nothing like this for all airliners.

                Comment

                • nJayM
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 1687

                  I am not even going to speculate at this stage as to who, why or when; or if this was a deliberate human act including collaboration (e.g. to get into the secure cockpit door) OR whether a fantastic, modern and very safe aircraft simply disintegrated.

                  What I shall say is -
                  - It should not be possible to ever switch off a modern civil aircraft transponder (military aircraft must be obviously excluded for operations and stealth reasons) - the transponder must continue operating like the FDR and CVR until flight ceases completely.
                  - If you look at what I posted on this forum after AF447 - about real time, vital raw data transmissions being kept by airlines and manufacturers for ever (research and legal reasons) - It would supplement completely any lost for ever FDR and CVRs. Again very possible with all the technology that has been to hand for over 10 years.

                  Given the two aspects above the powers that require to could have by now located the missing aircraft without any difficulty whether it was on tera firma on under the ocean.

                  My hopes and prayers are with all the genuine pax on the flight that has been lost and their loved ones who wait for answers which aren't there to give at present.

                  We wait patiently.
                  Last edited by nJayM; 17th March 2014, 11:30. Reason: Minor typos
                  Jay

                  Comment

                  • Miggers
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 183

                    Originally posted by Peter Garner View Post
                    The aircraft took off after midnight and was well over an hour into its flight so about half of the passengers might have been asleep anyway. Even if the pilot altered course and headed in the opposite direction you'd suddenly have the moon on the other side (provided it was there). How many aware passengers that were not asleep would it take to notice that? According to news reports the aircraft changed altitute "drastically" several times. I've heard news reports that stated that several hours after the aircraft was reported missing, people tried to contact their relatives by their mobile phones - and they even rang! I believe that this has been denied since though, I'm not sure. However this gave me the vision of luggage-cases floating on the sea with a phone inside it ringing. If the aircraft was still in the air then, why didn't passengers hear their phones ringing?
                    Would it be possible for changes in alitude and course of direction taking place unnoticed by 230 passengers (well at least those that were still awake) for seven hours? It would have been daylight after these seven hours had passed. Surely the aircraft would have been expected to have been over land by then. Apparently it wasn't.
                    My wife asked the same questions to me and I also gave her pretty much this answer too.

                    If,if the flightdeck crew had the idea of what they were going to do,is it possible that the entire
                    flightcrew were also in on it too?

                    The attendants closing window blinds,making sure everyone was comfortable and resting,
                    the pilots even reassuring passengers over the tannoy that all the changes of altitude and
                    direction were under instruction from ATC and that all was well ?????

                    Maybe fanciful ideas,maybe not.

                    I think I'd be checking out(someone probably already is)all the remote airfields capable of
                    taking and hiding a 777.
                    By the time the a/c had been aloft for five or six hours it would've been a lot lighter than
                    TOW and from what I've seen on YouTube,a 777 can be landed and stopped
                    pretty smartly when required.
                    Last edited by Miggers; 15th March 2014, 17:43.
                    "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

                    Comment

                    • Newforest
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Apr 2005
                      • 8887

                      AT LAST, the home of the chief pilot is being searched. In other words , his computer will be taken with all the information that it contains.
                      http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.83 times!

                      Comment

                      • charliehunt
                        Nearly there!
                        • Oct 2012
                        • 11459

                        All of which begs the questions - who and why?
                        Charlie

                        Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                        Comment

                        • J Boyle
                          With malice towards none
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 9790

                          Originally posted by nJayM View Post
                          ... OR whether a fantastic, modern and very safe aircraft simply disintegrated.

                          If it was a Comet-like in flight explosion, there would have been debris on the expected flight path.
                          Also, the plane most likely would not have changed direction...and if the crew were faced with a partial airframe breakup (if such a thing is possible) and tried to turn around to head for land, they would have radioed for help.
                          Again, debris would have been found on the new heading, and I'd expect the ELTs would have been gone off.

                          Nothing in this case makes any sense.
                          There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                          Comment

                          • Miggers
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 183

                            Originally posted by Newforest View Post
                            AT LAST, the home of the chief pilot is being searched. In other words , his computer will be taken with all the information that it contains.
                            Which,along with booting the doors in of all company staff on board,would have been done a few
                            days ago TBH.
                            "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

                            Comment

                            • WeeWillyII
                              Rank 4 Registered User
                              • Jan 2013
                              • 24

                              Seem to recall a search of one of the pilots homes was conducted earlier in the week with evidence of various screens and flight ware used either for practice or planning. Assume this has been looked into and more information is available other than which is being released.
                              Question: Can actions from the crew quarters disable or adjust cabin atmosphere to either incapacitate or kill the passengers? A theory could be that the B777 flew to a predestined site in the ocean and if wave conditions/winds were suitable, could the "hijacker" (since it appears someone...a pilot? took control) and pulled "a Scully" bellying it in where either passengers were taken hostage or more realistically, "sensitive or valuable materials" were offloaded? Because of flight distances involved it seemed hardly likely a suicidal pilot would fly this far to snuff himself.

                              Comment

                              • Newforest
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Apr 2005
                                • 8887

                                Originally posted by Miggers View Post
                                Which,along with booting the doors in of all company staff on board,would have been done a few
                                days ago TBH.
                                It has not been reported by any other source (not surprising maybe) but only now by the BBC.
                                http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.83 times!

                                Comment

                                • skyskooter
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Oct 2012
                                  • 407

                                  Originally posted by WeeWillyII View Post
                                  A theory could be that the B777 flew to a predestined site in the ocean and if wave conditions/winds were suitable, could the "hijacker" (since it appears someone...a pilot? took control) and pulled "a Scully" bellying it in where either passengers were taken hostage or more realistically, "sensitive or valuable materials" were offloaded? .
                                  Shades of "Thunderball" no less. No doubt 007 will be on to it. Hollywood lining up the stars already as the plot unfolds.

                                  Comment

                                  • Matt-100
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jul 2012
                                    • 568

                                    Originally posted by Miggers View Post
                                    If,if the flightdeck crew had the idea of what they were going to do,is it possible that the entire
                                    flightcrew were also in on it too?
                                    I just think we're getting into the realms of conspiracy theorists here. Am I right in saying due to rostering, crews only find out who they'll be flying with days before they fly (or even on the day that they fly) - perhaps Deano can give an insight? But if this is the case then you're telling me all the crew were convinced to go along with a hijacking plot within the space of 5-48 hours without a single one reporting anything to the police?

                                    With regard to "seeing the moon on the other side of the aircraft". Let's face it, when you're on a plane the only window you look out of is your own (unless of course there's a pretty view on the other side... but this was at night, so no pretty view). With this in mind, you wouldn't be thinking "the moon's swapped sides", you'd just be thinking "the moon's come into view".

                                    Originally posted by WeeWillyII View Post
                                    Seem to recall a search of one of the pilots homes was conducted earlier in the week with evidence of various screens and flight ware used either for practice or planning. Assume this has been looked into and more information is available other than which is being released.
                                    Question: Can actions from the crew quarters disable or adjust cabin atmosphere to either incapacitate or kill the passengers? A theory could be that the B777 flew to a predestined site in the ocean and if wave conditions/winds were suitable, could the "hijacker" (since it appears someone...a pilot? took control) and pulled "a Scully" bellying it in where either passengers were taken hostage or more realistically, "sensitive or valuable materials" were offloaded? Because of flight distances involved it seemed hardly likely a suicidal pilot would fly this far to snuff himself.
                                    I posted a link earlier in the thread to a tribute article on the captain, in it there were pictures of him using his advanced FSX simulator... At the time I thought nothing of it, but in hindsight maybe this was 'training' for his elaborate plot? Anyone can KO the first officer and plunge the aircraft into a suicidal dive, but make the aircraft simply disappear off the face of the planet requires the mind of a psychotic genius. If it were the captain, he probably exhibited similar psychological behavior to a serial killer during those five hours. He was no longer an airline pilot but a killer seeking revenge on the company, one of the passengers, one of the crew, someone who'd p***ed him off and was out to make a point? Who knows? One thing I can say to a degree of certainty, if it were the captain, Malaysian Airlines flight 370 to Beijing wasn't chosen by accident.

                                    ---

                                    Search and rescue operations in the South China Sea and Gulf of Thailand have been called off, a clear sign of where things are leading in this investigation.

                                    One interesting thought; CVRs only record (typically) 2 hours of previous cockpit communication. However this accident was potentially 5 hours long (a far cry from AF447's 5 minute disaster), with this in mind will we ever have the full and definitive story on what happened? This may simply remain a great mystery even after the recorders are found.

                                    It is also a sickening thought to imagine that when I first posted this thread to the forums in the early hours of Saturday morning last week, the frightened passengers could still have been in the air... Something I had never contemplated at the time.
                                    Last edited by Matt-100; 15th March 2014, 19:49.
                                    Feel free to check out my aviation pictures at http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhr_spotter/ - comments welcome

                                    Comment

                                    • Alpha Bravo
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Mar 2012
                                      • 622

                                      Lets assume the current data is correct, lets assume the aircraft was still sending out some form of data after 6/7 hours of flight, and based on the data, lets assume the northern and southern routes are the possible headings the aircraft could have taken. Of these two, I find it difficult to believe it could have been the northern route across southeast asia and into central asia, as any airliner flying with its transponders switched off would have been challenged at least once, if not more given the number of countries that route involves. So realistically that only leaves the southern route as the likely route it could have taken for flying so long without being detected, given that it's mostly over water. If it were my decision, I would look in the southern indian ocean. As to the motive, that can only be answered if/when the aircraft is found, or any of its wreckage.

                                      Comment

                                      • mrtotty
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Mar 2008
                                        • 1062

                                        Originally posted by Matt-100 View Post
                                        It is also a sickening thought to imagine that when I first posted this thread to the forums in the early hours of Saturday morning last week, the frightened passengers could still have been in the air... Something I had never contemplated at the time.
                                        Yes, exactly.

                                        If a hijacking over this time span turns out to be what happened, one can only begin to imagine what those poor people were going through.

                                        If something is going to go wrong over an ocean - generally an unsurvivable scenario - one can only hope that, by God's grace, what is going to happen happens quickly and no-one suffers or has any time to contemplate their demise.

                                        Comment

                                        • Flying-A
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Oct 2007
                                          • 461

                                          Some have suggested that the hijackers -- if it was hijacked -- might have donned oxygen masks and depressurized the plane, rendering the other occupants unconscious and then dead.

                                          But wouldn't that have set off an alarm and deployed the passengers' masks, enabling at least one to send off a message?

                                          The zig-zag course -- a gambit to burn off fuel and lighten the 777 prior to landing on a short runway?

                                          But wouldn't flying low achieve the same effect -- and evade radar at the same time?

                                          Point-counterpoint -- so much possible, so little certain.

                                          Comment

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