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Missing Malaysian Airlines B777

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    #21
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    Never Assume.

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      #22
      Originally posted by Matt-100 View Post
      I'd be very surprised if this crash turned out to be terrorist related.
      I wouldn't. I can't think of anything else it could be, though in fairness to Mr Matt, I'm prepared to be a. surprised and b. proved completely wrong.

      How catastrophic does turbulence have to be before it causes an aircraft to disintegrate?

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        #23
        It is odd. If it had been terrorism the perpetrators would usually by now have admitted it and declared another success for Allah against the Great Infidel, or some such. Unless it was two maniacs working alone. Or as posted for some other reason altogether.
        Charlie

        Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

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          #24
          Originally posted by mrtotty View Post
          How catastrophic does turbulence have to be before it causes an aircraft to disintegrate?
          It doesn't have to be turbulence that causes an aircraft to disintegrate.
          Remember the Aloha B737-200 and metal fatigue.
          Y.N.W.A

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            #25
            Originally posted by Matt-100 View Post
            I'd be very surprised if this crash turned out to be terrorist related, in this day and age where security meticulously scan and re-scan passengers I just can't see it happening (Kuala Lumpur is hardly a shanty airport in central Kenya, the security screening meets international standards and is the same everywhere in the world) - I'm sure the issue of the false passports will turn out to be one for immigration authorities to scratch their heads over rather than as a lead for the FBI. The two are probably unrelated but it's, of course, being played up by the media.
            The airport in Kuala Lumpur may be modern with all the security systems in place, but the fact still remains that they allowed two individuals to board a plane with stolen passports. While no security system is 100%, I would expect airports to at least be able to identify stolen or fake passports, and stop individuals from boarding flights using fake ID.

            Recent news on the BBC suggests that these two people bought their one way tickets using cash in Thai currency. That should ring alarm bells. Also, the suggestion that the aircraft attempted to turn back, based on radar data, may have been due to the radar picking up large pieces of the aircraft structure as it broke up in the air. Whatever happened, it's clear that the crew were not in a position to issue a distress or mayday call, so whatever did happen must have been very sudden and/or dramatic.

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              #26
              Originally posted by charliehunt View Post
              It is odd. If it had been terrorism the perpetrators would usually by now have admitted it and declared another success for Allah against the Great Infidel, or some such. Unless it was two maniacs working alone. Or as posted for some other reason altogether.
              Not necessarily, admitting responsibility means that you become the focus of a lot of attention. Especially if, and this is just pure speculation, it was a bomb planted by a group opposed to the Chinese government, it would result in a pretty brutal crackdown. It's often better to just keep quiet and not draw attention to yourself. IIRC there was never any formal claim of responsibility for Air India 182, certainly not at the time.

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                #27
                Fair enough. It would depend on the cause for which the sacrifice is being made, as you imply. And some groups/causes will do it for the publicity as much as anything else and others not so. I am surprised that the false passports were not identified at passport control - a quick scan against a database takes seconds.
                Charlie

                Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

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                  #28
                  The one scenario I have yet to see suggested, is that of a mid-air collision.
                  Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

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                    #29
                    Certainly an experienced captain with an avid interest in flying, spending his life doing what he loved.

                    http://www.sharelor.net/1/post/2014/...-of-mh370.html
                    Feel free to check out my aviation pictures at http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhr_spotter/ - comments welcome

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                      #30
                      Nothing "fits" really. This one is a puzzle.

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                        #31
                        Any chance someone mistakenly shot it down, and is keeping mum?
                        pb::

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                          #32
                          Originally posted by hawkdriver05 View Post
                          Nothing "fits" really. This one is a puzzle.
                          Agreed; what we have is an aircraft with a near perfect safety record, an airframe with no previous major incidents to its name (bar a ground collision at the wing-tip 1.5 years ago) and one of Malaysia's most experienced captains.

                          I do think the Malaysian's are looking in the wrong area completely. They should stop the search to the west and pool resources into looking further south and east, just my two cents anyway.

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                          Feel free to check out my aviation pictures at http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhr_spotter/ - comments welcome

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                            #33
                            Originally posted by Multirole View Post
                            Any chance someone mistakenly shot it down, and is keeping mum?
                            It is possible.

                            This is getting more mystifying by the minute so I suppose any scenario might be considered.

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                              #34
                              The fact that they have decided to search at the Malacca strait suggests they know something more than they are letting be known in public. This is getting very mysterious now. If the aircraft exploded mid-air, I would have thought there would be some debris field spotted by now. I was also thinking along the lines of a possible shooting down too, any idea if there were any naval exercises in the area at the time?

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                                #35
                                Does anyone know the depth of water in the presumed loss location. If the flight data recorder is lying at that depth and is still in working order what would be the range of its locator beacon able to be picked up by a surface ship equipped with suitable detection equipment for the 30 day period it is designed to activate on contact with sea water?

                                I would be surprised if the break up at 35,000 feet was not witnessed by someone at sea. Possibly fishermen for example who could still be at sea unaware of the enormity of the bright light in the sky.

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                                  #36
                                  Why can't radar determine where the aircraft went?
                                  When the Pan Am Lockerbie 747 went down the debris field was tracked on radar.

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                                    #37
                                    How feasible is it for the flight data recorder to send data via satellite link to some on-shore location where it can be stored, kinda like a cloud based solution? This would really help and get away from the constant need to find the flight data recorder, especially in challenging locations. I'm sure with current technology this could be done.

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                                      #38
                                      It's being reported that after Malaysian air traffic control lost radar contact with the jet at 01:22 local time, they asked a company 777 (MH88 bound for Narita) that was about 30 minutes ahead of MH370 and flying over Vietnamese airspace to try and establish radio contact with MH370 and relay messages.

                                      At 01:30 (8 minutes after radar contact was lost), the pilots of flight MH88 managed to establish a link. However, after relaying the message asking if they had passed into Vietnamese airspace yet the reply they received was just unintelligible mumbling made worse by the static of the radio. After this, the radio link was lost.
                                      Feel free to check out my aviation pictures at http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhr_spotter/ - comments welcome

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                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by mrtotty View Post
                                        It is possible.

                                        This is getting more mystifying by the minute so I suppose any scenario might be considered.
                                        I've been wondering about this being a shoot-down as well.

                                        But at typical cruiding altitude >30,000ft, I don't suppose a MANPAD has the range and also, any bad guys would need radar at night time to know where to shoot.

                                        As MH370 was approaching Vietnamese coast, other alternative would be a Vietnamese SAM, but presumably they should not mistake a commercial passenger jet on a well-known route.

                                        Would civilian ATC radars detect a SAM launch?

                                        I'm thinking a shoot-down, accidental or deliberate is unlikely...
                                        As Theodore Roosevelt said:
                                        "Talk softly, but carry a big stick"

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                                          #40
                                          Hong Kong's air traffic control centre has confirmed that a Cathay Pacific flight flying from HKG-KUL reported seeing a large field of debris at 17:30 local time on Monday 10th about 80 miles south east of Ho Chi Minh City in the South China Sea.

                                          A civilian cargo ship in the area was requested to re-route to the location for a follow up investigation. This ship has reportedly found a large amount of debris believed to be from the aircraft. A Vietnamese search and rescue ship is currently enroute.

                                          http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blo...ow-for-efforts
                                          Last edited by Matt-100; 11th March 2014, 02:05.
                                          Feel free to check out my aviation pictures at http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhr_spotter/ - comments welcome

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