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By: - 28th May 2003 at 12:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nice report Carl, would say I am glad you enjoyed it, but it sounded quite nasty.
I hate dirty aircraft, particularly when I pull my seatback table down and there is a circular coffee stain where a mug has spilled it's load and crumbs on the seat.. eww!
By: - 28th May 2003 at 13:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I feel the same, it was even more a surprise as their A340s can't be that old, it looked knackered inside.
By: - 28th May 2003 at 17:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
cheers for thr report Carl!
By: - 28th May 2003 at 17:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for that report Carl, it confirms my earlier decision not to fly Olympic at any price.;)
By: - 28th May 2003 at 18:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There was a supplement in The Times yesterday regarding Greece and how poorly organised they were for the Olympics. At one stage the Olympic Body was considering taking the games away because of the poor organisation. There was a success story behind the airport (as you said that it was “nice”) which was mentioned though many questioned whether it would have occurred without the Olympics likewise with the new metro system. Sadly Olympic Airlines doesn’t seem to meet the standards required though they have had (and still do) have massive problems with debts. Slim down and privatise the airline seems the best idea, which the Greek government is currently trying to do.
By: - 28th May 2003 at 18:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A good read there Carl. Not too sure that I would have eaten the Octopuss Salad either! Nasty!
I agree about the shabby state of their aircraft, though I haven't been inside an OA aircraft, I have seen them and they dont look too good on the outside either... Old and dirty.
OA currently have a fleet of 4 A340's, all of the 300 model.
Im sorry to hear that you didn't have the greatest of times, but It was an experiance nin the less.
Cheers for the report Carl. :)
By: - 28th May 2003 at 19:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sounds abit like Air France A340 lol. Well the one I flew out to JHB on a couple of years ago.
By: - 28th May 2003 at 20:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is anybody interested in buying Olympic? It seems that although the government is making an effort to turn around the loss and restructure the company, there are a lot of setbacks. The EU lawsuit against them with illegal state aid plus constant the unions opposition to job redundancies through job losses are a huge setback for the airline and cannot be doing any to help bring in potential buyers.
I think privatisation is needed and a new airline to be launched out Olympic. Seems to be the logical step being taken by the government at the moment
By: - 28th May 2003 at 21:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Try Virgin Express sometime, the home of gum chewing cabin staff and suspect cabins, still it is a LoCo so I suppose that makes it OK. Surprised at Olympic though.
By: - 28th May 2003 at 21:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
They probably need to place OA into liquidation and then provide non-financial assistance ("poliitcal help") to a new start-up.
I do not see any alternative! OA is heavily in debt and cannot be given any state funding as this is illegal, although the EU usually turns a blind eye to non-UK subsidies. The industrial relations situation is a mess and they probably need to tear up the contracts and issue new ones, which unfortunately is also illegal unless the unions suddenly become very friendly.
Frankly a new OA would be more likely to sack the dead wood and run itself on a more efficient, customer focused and meritocratic basis - I rather suspect OA is a resting ground for civil servants, not a place for ambituious executives/lawyers/accountants.
It's not so long ago they were flying 747's on the LHR-ATH route which probably were only as full as the 737's Easyjet used. And as GD1 commented recently, they are ignoring the huge Greek communities in places like Australia, which is a huge market they simply do not serve despite having too many long haul aircraft.
By: - 29th May 2003 at 00:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ok, I don't even want to get started on Olympic Airways, Olympics in Athens, or even political red tape in Greece, at large. The post would be so long, nobody would want to read it. I'm just going to make a few comments to some of the points made in the thread. First off, yes Zippo, OA has a great safety record. I believe you are correct in that they've never lost a jet and it's been a while since they lost a prop plane. It's also understood that they have tremendous pilots. Unfortunately, that's where the 'good' ends. Everything else is 'bad' and 'ugly.' I've never flown OA on segments longer than an hour, so I really can't comment on good or bad service in those regards. However, it doesn't surprise me one bit, that you were extremely unhappy with your service, Carl. If you had told that story and asked, "Guess the airline," I would have immediately known the answer. They've been operating at a loss for about 30 years. They have very strong unions and everytime something is done, it gets shot down, or there are strikes. They have too many people in management positions. They probably have 2 or 3 times more employees than they actually need. They have some new aircraft: 4 A340's are less than 4 years old, A300-600's are around 10, plus a few 717's. However, everything else is old. They canceled orders for new 738's a few years back. If some of you recall, BA sent in a team called Speedwing a few years back led by Rod Lynch to try and turn them around. He lasted about 6 months or so, because the poor guy couldn't get anything done will all the B.S. that was going on! Ironic how OA brass (bunch of morons) claimed that the airline actually digressed while Speedwing was in there. Had that worked, it would have allowed them to join Oneworld, but of course that never surfaced. It's sad that a national carrier with a route network and location (Greek islands generate lots of tourism) that has so much potential, is just so bad. In times like these, who has enough capitol to buy a financially troubled airline? No wonder they can't privatize. I've gone on long enough, I could go on for a lot longer.
P.S. Carl, as far as them using the A340 on that route, they traditionally used the A300 to LHR, but they pulled out of Australia about 6 months ago, so that freed up 1 of their 4 A340's to be used on other services. Since they only had 3 long distance routes remaining after that (JFK, YUL/YYZ, JNB), they replaced 1 of the usual 2 or 3 A300-600 LHR flights with an A340 flight.
By: - 29th May 2003 at 14:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the plan being taken by the Greek government will be to liquidate Olympic and build a new airline out of Macedonian Airlines with slimmer operations. That means less aircraft and no more long haul operations.
By: - 29th May 2003 at 15:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Didn't Olympic crash a Scud in Corfu?
By: - 29th May 2003 at 16:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Im glad my little report generated so much interest. Its a sad situation that they are in such a mess, Im aware that there is a huge Greek expatriate community in Australia which they are not serving, however with the service levels they are currently offering I presume most people would elect a better airline for such a long flight.
I read recently that there is quite a few English expats in Corfu, at one time OA operated direct from there into LHR. now they have a much longer journey routing via Athens and apparently there is little chance of that route being reinstated. Easyjet have been approached to launch a service I understand.
Athens airports is now quite a joy, not too busy, all under one roof, bright and airy, if OA were better they would be a good carrier to use for transfer connections. I don't know if they are timing their services to the islands better now, they used tobe unattractive.
As regards to the Olympics I can't see them ever being ready, the roads, the metro and apparently most of the stadiums are far from complete.
One last thing if you ever try to get a taxi from Piraeus to the airport at about 4.30pm its a night-mare, tried four none wanted to take me. There is an express bus which is fine, its just finding where it stops that is difficult.
Carl
By: - 29th May 2003 at 18:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Originally posted by Saab 2000
I think the plan being taken by the Greek government will be to liquidate Olympic and build a new airline out of Macedonian Airlines with slimmer operations. That means less aircraft and no more long haul operations.
Forgive me if I'm being a little dim, but Macedonian Airlines is....Macedonian, isn't it?
By: - 29th May 2003 at 20:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Macedonian Airlines is a subsidiary of OA, operated by OA aircraft and crew. There really is no difference between them and the mainline carrier. Carl, there is an enormous amount of Greeks in Australia, at least a million from what I've been told. Believe me when I say, Olympic could have the worst service in the world, and the Greeks will fly them over Singapore, Thai and Emirates, just because its Olympic. The new ATH is wonderful! Very nice facilities, good shops, very clean, and decent security, unlike the old ATH, which was a $hithole in every sense of the word. As far as the Olympics go, Carl, they will NEVER BE READY. The road that connects ATH with downtown, is about 5 miles long, if that. They've made no progress whatsoever, since I was there in '01, 3 months after the new airport opened. Everything else is a mess. I sincerely hope the Olympic committee wakes up, and awards the games to L.A., which has all the facilities to accomodate the games at moments' notice (not to mention they were the last games to actually make a profit). You mention the metro, that is the only thing that is ACTUALLY READY. All those years, there was only one line. Now, they have 3, and the 2 new lines are very nice. As far as transportation goes, you can take the bus from 2 stations (Ethniki Amina and Syntagma) and only costs 2.5 Euros (has to be the cheapest in Europe). The metro goes from Piraeas with a switch to any of those stations. In fact, the same ticket covers the train and the bus. Lastly, I don't think reducing the amount of long haul routes is the answer. Olympics long haul routes are always full, because as I mentioned before, the cities they serve on the long haul cater to a large Greek population and they'll fly Olympic regardless of the service. What needs to be done is eliminating lots of 'the brass.' Right now, they probably have 10 people where they only need 1. That's the majority of the problem.
By: - 29th May 2003 at 20:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
South Africa also has a large Greek population - at least judging by the number of Greek restaurants!
I'm not sure about New York, but that city has lots of every conceivable ethnic group in the world so there's probably lots of Greeks there too.
Given OA still serves JNB and JFK, the Australia withdrawal seems very strange!
By: - 29th May 2003 at 20:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
S. Africa does indeed have a big Greek population, Mongu. New York is the most populous Greek city in the U.S., possibly N. America. Montreal and Toronto also have quite a few, as OA serves those 2 cities in tandem. They SYD/MEL withdrawal continues to baffel me, especially as the summer season draws near, where winter in Australia causes the Greeks to flock to the home country. It was always difficult to get a ticket on OA this time of year, through the month of August. Clearly the bigwigs don't know their arsehole from a hole in the ground.
By: - 30th May 2003 at 08:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Mongu,
Macedonia (or Makedonía) is a region of Greece up in the north east area on the boarders with the actual country of Macedonia and Bulgaria.
By: - 30th May 2003 at 09:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for the great report,i'll add O/A to my list of no flys
Posts: 268
By: carl727uk - 28th May 2003 at 11:59
Having recently returned to Athens, I thought forum readers would like to read about a trip I made. I firstly flew with BMI from Manchester terminal 3 to Heathrow on an A320, busy flight on-time nice hot sandwich served. The luggage was checked through onto the next flight but as BD and OA don't have an agreement, I had to check-in again at the transit lounge at Heathrow terminal 2 for our seats.
I was quite excited as the Olympic service (OA 260) was operating with an A340. I found it quite strange as this is a long-haul aircraft and LHR-ATH is not a long-haul route. I wonder if this is because Olympic have shed a load of their long-haul services and so is left with an aircraft type not ideal for their purposes ?
The flight was about half-full, the cabin was unclean and shabby for a new aircraft, empty water bottle under the seat infront of mine. There was seat-back screens although these were mainly not operating correctly, a few had the route map showing. The crew looked basicly fed-up, I have never seen a stewardess before chewing gum while serving drinks, these were restricted to soft drinks, beer or wine, so no G & T for me ! The food was nothing special, The only good thing I can say about the flight was that it was on time.
My return was on a Wednesday night on OA 277 direct to Manchester. The aircraft was a 737-400 of Macedonian Airlines, again about half-full. The crew were better on this service as was the food, although I think some of the passengers would have struggled with the Octopus salad !! The flight was on-time which was good as it was quite a late service.
My conclusion to the experience was un-impressed, I would say that they felt like an airline on there way out and not well-place to cope with the 2004 Olympics in Athens. The new Athens Airport is nice and a huge improvment to have international and domestic operations under the same roof. However the infrastruture to the airport and indeed for the forthcoming Olympics are still under construction.
Several years back I flew with Easyjet to Athens and in comparison they were much better, Its a shame a national airline that has been around for a long-time is so bad. Has anyone else flown with Olympic before, maybe when they were experiencing better times ?
Carl