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Helicopter down in the North Sea.

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  • Mr Creosote
    Better get a bucket...
    • Aug 2005
    • 1399

    Helicopter down in the North Sea.

    Fingers crossed all are OK.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...tland-23821083
    Terms & Conditions Apply.
  • Newforest
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Apr 2005
    • 8888

    #2
    This would seem to be the second crash in the area today, a Bolkow 105 off Orkney, one on board. Fingers crossed for all good results.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ashes-sea.html
    http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.83 times!

    Comment

    • charliehunt
      Nearly there!
      • Oct 2012
      • 11459

      #3
      Originally posted by Mr Creosote View Post
      Two bodies recovered and one still missing. A history of problems with the main gear box of the Super Puma were reported this morning. Is that accurate?
      Charlie

      Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

      Comment

      • Newforest
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Apr 2005
        • 8888

        #4
        This story would give you some history.


        http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...-skies-2136628


        Latest report is that 14 have been rescued, 3 fatalities and 1 still missing.
        http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.83 times!

        Comment

        • charliehunt
          Nearly there!
          • Oct 2012
          • 11459

          #5
          That makes worrying reading in the light of yesterday's tragedy.
          Charlie

          Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

          Comment

          • EGTC
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2009
            • 2835

            #6
            So sad to hear of the fatalities. RIP.
            Y.N.W.A

            Comment

            • paul1867
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Nov 2012
              • 1452

              #7
              All UK Super Pumas grounded

              http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...tland-23829107
              I had just got round to seeing the glass as half full instead of half empty, when some sod came and drank it......

              Comment

              • Stuart H
                Big boys did it
                • Mar 2010
                • 215

                #8
                I heard on the news today that there are approximately 100 flights per day to oil rigs, and around 50% of those are Super Puma. There have been 4 accidents in 4 years involving the Super Puma.

                The maths would suggest there are approximately 50 Super Puma flights per day, which over 365 days equals 18250 flights, and the figures over 4 years suggest that at a rate of 1 accident per year, so there is a 1 in 18250 chance that a flight will end in an accident. A worker, one month on, one month off will fly 24 times per year which by my calculation means they have a 1 in 760 chance of being involved in an accident over a year.

                Are my maths skills at fault, or would workers be justified in refusing to fly in this series of helicopter?
                The reason there is so little crime in Germany is that it's against the law.

                Comment

                • charliehunt
                  Nearly there!
                  • Oct 2012
                  • 11459

                  #9
                  Presumably someone has produced statistics for fatalities per hour for the particular model of Super Puma involved, just as they are available for most modes of travel. Rig workers will be aware that risks are involved. This is in no way meant to diminish the tragedy but just to comment on your analysis.
                  Charlie

                  Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                  Comment

                  • Stuart H
                    Big boys did it
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 215

                    #10
                    Like the unfortunate families of those who were lost, I have family and friends who work offshore and when one of these stories breaks there's always a period of anxious uncertainty which made me think about the 'analysis'. I was both hoping and wondering if I was way off track.

                    Of course the workers are aware that there are risks involved but they are entitled to expect that safety and not expediency is put first. There are enormous sums involved in grounding these aircraft and assurances that they are safe somehow rings hollow. I'd like to see comparative stats for aircraft safety records.
                    The reason there is so little crime in Germany is that it's against the law.

                    Comment

                    • Mpacha
                      Moderator
                      • Jan 2000
                      • 1281

                      #11
                      Originally posted by charliehunt View Post
                      Two bodies recovered and one still missing. A history of problems with the main gear box of the Super Puma were reported this morning. Is that accurate?
                      This was a Super Puma EC332L2 which has a different gearbox to the EC225 which had the gearbox problems.
                      pb::

                      Comment

                      • paul1867
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Nov 2012
                        • 1452

                        #12
                        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...tland-23846713

                        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23858069
                        I had just got round to seeing the glass as half full instead of half empty, when some sod came and drank it......

                        Comment

                        • charliehunt
                          Nearly there!
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 11459

                          #13
                          David Learmount's piece in Flight Global yesterday puts it into proper perspective. Here http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/le...pter-accident/
                          Last edited by charliehunt; 28th August 2013, 07:06.
                          Charlie

                          Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                          Comment

                          • mrtotty
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 1062

                            #14
                            David Learmount is right, of course, but that wouldn't stop me feeling a little apprehensive flying aboard a Super Puma if I was an oil-rig worker.

                            Comment

                            • hampden98
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 2550

                              #15
                              Originally posted by mrtotty View Post
                              David Learmount is right, of course, but that wouldn't stop me feeling a little apprehensive flying aboard a Super Puma if I was an oil-rig worker.
                              You have to admit though that having the main rota detach in flight is a pretty big non survivable failure.
                              Are there any other helicopter types that have suffered such a fate?

                              Comment

                              • charliehunt
                                Nearly there!
                                • Oct 2012
                                • 11459

                                #16
                                But apart from the April 2009 tragedy there is no other record of that being the cause of an accident.
                                Charlie

                                Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                                Comment

                                • WL747
                                  aye, right....
                                  • Feb 2006
                                  • 463

                                  #17
                                  The 2009 incident was not caused by the main rotor detaching, that was caused by catastrophic failure of the gear box. This was G-REDL which was an AS332L2, not an EC 225

                                  I do work offshore, but not on rigs. The Puma is disliked by many as it is really uncomfortable to fly in. If in the seats were there is somebody facing you, there is no legroom, and legs often have to be intertwined. Smaller windows plus large guys in survival suits make these things hard to get out of. In an emergency, even more so. It is a credit to the training and coolness of the guys on the recent crash that so many survived.

                                  If given the choice of a Puma or an S61 or S92, the puma will never be my first choice.

                                  Perhaps give a thought to those guys who make sacrifices so you can fill your car or heat your home. Bosses argue that offshore workers get paid well, but as anybody in safety will tell you, no amount of money can compensate for the risk taking when it goes wrong.

                                  Kind Regards,
                                  Scotty
                                  Last edited by WL747; 31st August 2013, 13:10.
                                  "I've never killed a man, but I've read many obituaries with a great deal of satisfaction" - Mark Twain

                                  Comment

                                  • ~Alan~
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Mar 2010
                                    • 5018

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by WL747 View Post

                                    Perhaps give a thought to those guys who make sacrifices so you can fill your car or heat your home. Bosses argue that offshore workers get paid well, but as anybody in safety will tell you, no amount of money can compensate for the risk taking when it goes wrong.

                                    Kind Regards,
                                    Scotty
                                    I would think that the big pay cheque is why most work on the rigs ?
                                    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

                                    Comment

                                    • WL747
                                      aye, right....
                                      • Feb 2006
                                      • 463

                                      #19
                                      That's a bit of a misconception. Not everybody on a rig is well paid. Bear in mind people who work at sea are there 24hrs, not 8hrs. Pro-rata it's a wage similar to everybody else's. Do 3 times the hours, get a wage that reflects that. l know people who earn more in a supermarket, get to go home at night, and don't have to sleep on top of a potential bomb, or work in all weathers on a heaving boat or rig. Those who get superstar wages are those who have specialist skills.

                                      We all make our choices for work, but it's a job that not everybody can do. Usually if things go wrong on a rig or helicopter, it doesn't end well.
                                      "I've never killed a man, but I've read many obituaries with a great deal of satisfaction" - Mark Twain

                                      Comment

                                      • charliehunt
                                        Nearly there!
                                        • Oct 2012
                                        • 11459

                                        #20
                                        All of that is of course true and all choices about jobs are free choices. Whatever the reasons people make their free choice to work on rigs fully cognisant of the risks.
                                        If the jobs were not worth it for whatever reason employers would have make sure they were. As it happens they apparently are.
                                        Charlie

                                        Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

                                        Comment

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