Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

More GCI Concerns - this time Flybe!

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • EGNM
    Sadact
    • Jan 2000
    • 3875

    More GCI Concerns - this time Flybe!

    Flybe in crisis talks with States


    Flybe is concerned any takeover will seriously affect business
    Flybe is holding crisis talks with Guernsey politicians after the airline revealed its service to the island is at risk.

    It follows a proposed takeover of Channel Islands' airline Aurigny by Guernsey's States after British Airways' decision to stop flying the Guernsey to Gatwick route from 16 June.

    Flybe has said it is worried any takeover will seriously affect its business.

    Meanwhile, Guernsey should try and acquire the landing slots at Gatwick airport and licence them to an independent airline, according to a local aviation expert.

    States-subsidised

    The managing director of Flybe, Jim French, said that his company does not want to operate on a route against States-owned opposition.

    He said flying in competition with a States-subsidised airline would not be a level playing field and the company would be fighting an unfair battle.

    He is urging States members to look at all the available options before pressing ahead with the purchase of Aurigny.

    The States is deciding on whether it should buy Aurigny at a cost of about 5m.

    BA's decision to withdraw from Guernsey has been made because the 66-seater ATR 72 aircraft which operate the route will be retired and returned to their leasing company this summer.

    Slot licences

    The airline claims putting a larger aircraft type on the route would only incur unsustainable losses.

    However, Guernsey should try and acquire the landing slots at Gatwick airport and licence them to an independent airline, according to the chairman of the Guernsey Chamber of Commerce's transport sub-committee.

    Roger Dadd says States members should be considering all the options ahead of the purchase debate and that a licence system works well for island ferry services and could also be used for Guernsey's air links.

    Flybe's Jim French said his company was ready to provide that service without the government entering into the airline business.
    Brgds
    EGNM
  • Saab 2000
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2000
    • 3468

    #2
    Flybe. Should have received those slots. The licence system would of been much better and would of stopped the States getting involved in Aurigny and yes, it has worked well for the ferry services. I only hope that tomorrow's decision is against buying Aurigny as on the whole it would be a better offer to safeguard airlinks rather the proposed option.
    It would be an unfair operation and would risk, as said, our future airlinks that are oh so vital.

    Comment

    • wysiwyg
      Retard :)
      • Jan 2000
      • 3749

      #3
      Purely a personal opinion but I believe Flybe are not interested enough in the Channel Islands to deserve these slots. After all they even chose to ditch the word Jersey from their title a few years ago. Aurigny may be a right old woman of an airline but at least it has no interest in any other market than those which serve the islands. Remind me, where is Flybe's headquarters these days? Ah yes, Exeter, nowhere near Les Isles Normandes!

      Comment

      • Saab 2000
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2000
        • 3468

        #4
        Wysiwyg,
        I agree partly that British European's enthusiasm is no longer there for the Channel Islands with the recent threats of route closures and frequency changes, if they were purely commited to the Channel Islands then possibly it would be a different matter. However, as their business plan has changed towards a low cost structure and they have expanded in Europe then yes, maybe the C.I. have been downgraded in priority. Nevertheless I still think Flybe are interested enough in the Channel Islands to deserve these slots. They have provided a highly faithful service to Gatwick for many years and are still very popular and going strong. Why should they not get the slots if they are still very much interested?
        The name change was due to their expansion and have they not for many recent years been operating Exeter as a base and still faithly serving the islands whereas as Exeter, what service?

        Aurigny are a good airline, reliable and 100% island orientated which is good, however, I just think that the current situation would be bad for the islands airlinks if they were bought up by the government.

        Comment

        • wysiwyg
          Retard :)
          • Jan 2000
          • 3749

          #5
          I don't deny that the States appear to be backing the tortoise rather than the hare but don't forget who won that race! I admit that this is probobly better for Aurigny than it is for the islands but I have a problem backing any company (such as Flybe) who are as notorious as they are for appalling treatment of their employees.

          Comment

          • mongu
            Director
            • Jan 2000
            • 2918

            #6
            Why should the States be bothered at all?

            Someone will come along to fly GCI-LGW in the end; the involvement of the States should start (and end) with informal chats and prods in the right direction, nothing more.

            As for Flybe, they are turning themselves into a niche domestic carrier as well as a European one. They may not especially be committed to the CI, but if they are presented with the route I think it would be in their own best interests to take it.

            Exactly the same problem is virtually guaranteed to hit the IOM before too long; BA will axe its routes and we will be left with a few sporadic Flybe routes (BHD, BRS, NCL, LCY) and a "national carrier" that flies 19 seaters and doesn't go anywhere near London! Like with the ATR-72, BA will retire the ATP at some point in the near future, and the only jet to serve the IOM is a 20 year old 146 which is looking long in the tooth. Maybe the goverments of IOM and Guernsey should club together and acquire some LGW slots and share them!
            Skiaynin Vannin

            Comment

            • skycruiser
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2000
              • 906

              #7
              If Aurigny do operate in to Gatwick then what equipment will they use. The saab340 is not big enough. I bet the Airport authority doen't want a 34 seater flying in to Gatwick either.

              A states owned airline, now that will be interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
              pb::

              Comment

              • wysiwyg
                Retard :)
                • Jan 2000
                • 3749

                #8
                SC - It's being done with an ATR72. Would you leave HK for an ATR command? I didn't think so!

                Comment

                • skycruiser
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 906

                  #9
                  Your right WYS! Not a chance.

                  Are Aurigny getting an ATR, if so are they wet leasing or training there own crews up?
                  pb::

                  Comment

                  • Saab 2000
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 3468

                    #10
                    skycruiser, they will be BA crews.
                    The News from today.
                    The news came in about an hour ago; the States of Guernsey will buy Aurigny. 38 to 2 voted to buy the airline today after shareholders rejected offers to finance the Gatwick slots. Therefore a deal was passed today that would see Aurigny being bought by the States for 5 million with an extra 2 million for fees and operational costs. This will be the first airline ever to be nationalised.
                    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3025669.stm


                    Consequences:
                    The consequences of this are very concerning and no doubt history will judge their wisdom. The buyout will seriously effect Flybe's business over here because it is unfair competition, they are threatening to pull services. Le Cocq's are threatening to pull out as well and will now not expand from Guernsey to new destinations in France. Le Cocq's will also now consider whether or not to compete with Aurigny on the JER-ACI route.

                    My opinion:
                    Absolutely saddened at the decision. Why should we be forced to pay for an airline when Flybe. could of taken those slots? Why they were never informed or given a chance to gain the slots is another question that comes to mind? This is very unfair to have this sort of States-subsidised monopoly. Moreover, there will be problems in fairness when it comes to route licensing, how the hell can the States remain impartial if it was both licensor and owner of an airline? I would also like to know why as a Guernsey resident what justifies the 5 million purchase? They have broken even sure but that is not the gain of return that a venture capitalist would like to see.
                    So here we go, look at Aeroflot in the last few decades and see an image of The Channel Islands future aviation industry.

                    Comment

                    • Saab 2000
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2000
                      • 3468

                      #11
                      Mongu,
                      Essentially this is what the States of Guernsey have done. When the opportunity of being able to own an airline that had managed to acquire the use of much sought after take-off and landing slots at Gatwick, the natural temptation is inevitable and cannot be resisted. I generally agree that those slots should be protected by an airline or government to guarantee vital airlinks to mainland airports.

                      What I am against is how the States have jumped in and not considered any limitations nor long term strategy. What is to say that another 2 million will not be needed? They should of not got involved in the running and owning of an airline, simple as that.

                      I have no real reservations about Aurigny taking on the Gatwick route, it is excellent to see, after the BA pullout, an airline that is orientated at the island market taking over the route. However, I still think Flybe. would have probably been better on receiving those slots. For them it would be the expansion of an already very popular service. Anyhow, what strikes me as strange is that Flybe. had no consultation that the slots were up for sale, it was a case of BA just prepared to let them go (strike you as being a little odd with BA?) and selling them to Aurigny. I suspect that maybe they wanted to ensure Flybe. had a continual competitor on the route.

                      With the subject of the Isle Of Man, Channel Islands and the Highlands governments attempts to secure slots, I am in full support. They are vital, especially London, to the economy, tourism industry and general well being of islanders. As we are not part of Europe (bar the later islands) we need to seek, through the UK government, help to persuade the EU to secure a number of slots at major airports for the regions. It may take some time to be implemented but it is needed. Just for example, if I take Guernsey's Gatwick figures for last year, 300,000 passengers, we cannot underestimate these. What would be the effects if flights were lost?

                      Comment

                      • skycruiser
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 906

                        #12
                        Thanks for the info SAAB.
                        pb::

                        Comment

                        • Saab 2000
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 3468

                          #13
                          I am not sure how long the leases on the aircraft exist, think it is only a couple of months. Aurigny will have quite a diverse fleet now from its humble beginnings with the Trislander.

                          Comment

                          • EGNM
                            Sadact
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 3875

                            #14
                            yea - seems unusual to have the Shorts 360, SAAB 340 and ATR-72 - Expect that the Shorts will be replaced by an ATR freighter when the leases end then?
                            Brgds
                            EGNM

                            Comment

                            • Saab 2000
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 3468

                              #15
                              You can also add the BAe 146 for the summer weekends. The Shorts could not be replaced (they are actually getting another one, rumour has it from Loganair) as the inter island route which is now really going to be a total Shorts operation from GCI-JER, could only really be served by that aircraft as the saab and ATR probably would not be as gooder operating costs.

                              Comment

                              • EGNM
                                Sadact
                                • Jan 2000
                                • 3875

                                #16
                                i suppose with the route monopoly the public will have a grin and bear it regime
                                Brgds
                                EGNM

                                Comment

                                • Saab 2000
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 3468

                                  #17
                                  No because then you take the 1 hour ferry between Guernsey and Jersey with cheap fares and duty free That is Aurigny's main competitor. Aurigny may have a monopoly in the air but it is far from the number one option for inter island travel.
                                  Also, another thing I am currently wondering is whether or not Aurigny will have to apply for the licensce like everybody else?
                                  Last edited by Saab 2000; 16th May 2003, 17:26.

                                  Comment

                                  • EGNM
                                    Sadact
                                    • Jan 2000
                                    • 3875

                                    #18
                                    well if the airline is government owned, along with the license issuing authorities i don't think that anything would be revealed to the public until everything was internally clarified as it be?
                                    Brgds
                                    EGNM

                                    Comment

                                    • Saab 2000
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Jan 2000
                                      • 3468

                                      #19
                                      Just recieved a copy of Friday's Jersey Evening Post. Actually quite good to see the other perspective on the matter. Comparison between the Guernsey Press and Star's and The JEP's perspectives:
                                      Guernsey;
                                      Locally-based aviation expert and journalist Geoff Jones described it as deplorable.
                                      He said it was the latest in a string of sad and very expensive decisions made by the States.
                                      Im amazed at the 38-to-2 vote in favour, he said.
                                      Deregulation of civil aviation started in the United States in 1978 and about five years ago in Europe.
                                      There are very few parts of the world these days where it is regulated - in other words, where the state owns the airline, he said.
                                      Olympic Airlines in Greece is state-owned, he said, but the Greek government was trying desperately to get rid of it due to the financial burden.
                                      Whether its for securing slots or whatever it is, I think its a terribly retrograde step, particularly in todays air transport industry.
                                      People were told that Guernsey would lose the Gatwick slots, but Flybe already had slots.
                                      I believe there are only four, or perhaps five, slots that we have secured. Flybe has far more slots than that and they are still available.
                                      EasyJet had expanded its Gatwick operation phenomenally over the last two years by acquiring its own slots.
                                      We should have been allowed to operate in a free-market economy and, if we lost the slots by losing British Airways, so be it. But I dont think were being told the truth. If we were to operate in a free-market economy and an airline wanted to operate into Gatwick again in the future, then I think we could get the slots back.
                                      He said that airlines that were not run by the States were now in a difficult and embarrassing situation.
                                      It was a myth to think that the States would not interfere with the company. There had to be interference as the States was now the majority shareholder.
                                      The sooner the States divest themselves of a majority shareholding in Aurigny, the better. But whether they can do that remains to be seen.
                                      He said the money should have been spent on subsidising the islands air services.

                                      Jersey;
                                      The States of Guernsey are to be congradulated on takingg decisive action to protect their lifeline slots at Gatwick through the purchase of Aurigny, the beneficiary of British Airways' sudden withdrawal from services to their island.
                                      Much criticism has been levelled at Guernsey politicians for 'putting the clock back' on government ownership of airlines. Yet the United States at this very moment arrangements are being made to bail out major national carriers to protect them from collapse in an exercise which more or less amounts to nationalisation.
                                      We have to face the fact that the aviation industry is endemically highly volatile. Having an island economy heavily dependent on such an unstable transport medium, as Guernsey and Jersey are, both as finance centres and tourism destinations, is bound to produce major tensions. All this compounded when the UK is facing a capacity crisis, particularly at London airports.
                                      There is much to talk of protecting slots for the Channel Islands' air services, but little evidence of real political progress. In these circumstances, the members of the States of Guernsey have acted in a way that surely deserves admiration. It may entail risk, but probably much less risk than inaction.
                                      If only British Airways had offered Aurigny our Heathrow slots.
                                      ******
                                      Two different opinions there.
                                      Generally the people of Guernsey have taken it as a bad idea. They are worried about a monopoly and high prices. Their sympathies lie with Le Cocq's and Flybe.

                                      Comment

                                      • Saab 2000
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Jan 2000
                                        • 3468

                                        #20
                                        Sorry to continue on this subject but the air wars continue.
                                        Today Le Cocq's filed an application to fly JER-GCI on inter island- the big Aurigny monopoly. They say there is room considering the Aurigny cutbacks.

                                        Comment

                                        Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                        Collapse

                                         

                                        Working...
                                        X