Read the forum code of contact
By: - 29th October 2011 at 12:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
crikey! Alan Joyce has gone mad! :eek:
By: - 29th October 2011 at 13:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Flights of QantasLink, Jetstar and Jetconnect are not affected by the temporarily suspended operation of Qantas.
Bye
By: - 29th October 2011 at 13:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This could be a risky strategy for both sides. Always sad when a dispute reaches a state like this. The losers as ever, are the poor suckers that buy the tickets to use the airline. Nothing like taking a good chunk out of the hand that feeds you.:(
By: - 29th October 2011 at 14:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Whilst I don't know the full details of the dispute I do get a feeling it has similarities with the British Airways dispute.
In the end like British Airways they have decided to go for the nuclear option (or in this case thermo nuclear) and take the financial hit to gain a win over the unions.
Now whilst I am a firm believer in workers rights this is a situation that has been building for a while in the old large airlines. They are no longer state sponsered monopolies that were also in a price fixing cabal with each other. They now have to compete with younger airlines who charge much less and don't give the kind of perks and pay conditions of the old airlines. Certainly a sad situation especially for the workers but the other option is the airline going belly up!
By: - 29th October 2011 at 16:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Now whilst I am a firm believer in workers rights this is a situation that has been building for a while in the old large airlines. They are no longer state sponsered monopolies that were also in a price fixing cabal with each other. They now have to compete with younger airlines who charge much less and don't give the kind of perks and pay conditions of the old airlines. Certainly a sad situation especially for the workers but the other option is the airline going belly up!
Agree completely. Why is it that so many established workers in the "first world" seem to think that their employers are the enemy, and that they are owed a living just by the fact that they are breathing the air?
By: - 30th October 2011 at 00:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Most people saw red at the end of last week after the CEO and board approved a 71% pay increase for the CEO, while refusing to budge over the 5% pay increase for the workers. Interesting to note that in news articles it says the shareholders backed the pay rise for the CEO, but read a little further and you find out its actually institutional investors (ie other companies) that supported the rise, while the retail investors (mums n dads etc) protested about it. In the end the institutional investors will always win as they have larger percentages etc etc :mad:
Brinksmanship of the worst kind in any case... :(
By: - 30th October 2011 at 01:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The only "strike" action was from the baggage handlers....
The cabin staff, pilots union, and LAMEs have all been in dispute with the airline for months due to pay, conditions and threats of moving more jobs offshore (including a plan to more QANTAS offshore).
Alan Joyce has gone completely mad by suddenly announcing a complete world wide shut down and lock out of all staff members despite 2/3rd of the staff members not "on strike".
This is just 2 days after the shareholders voted him a near 70% pay rise and bonuses....
A statement in response to Qantas actionFollowing Qantas management’s unprecedented and unilateral decision to ground its fleet on Saturday there have been several erroneous reports both in the media and directly from management that we would like to clarify:
Industrial action by AIPA pilots has not cost the company a single cent in revenue.
Industrial action by AIPA has not delayed a single passenger or grounded a single flight.
Our entire public industrial action over the past 4 months has been to make positive in-flight announcements and to wear red ties with our campaign message on them.For Qantas management to respond to these reasonable and non-disruptive actions in this way is more than a gross over-reaction. It is a sign that the current management has lost touch with the travelling public, its workers and the basic Australian ethos of free speech.
We are hoping for a positive outcome from today’s talks and will provide updates as soon as we can.
In the meantime we’d like to thank all of you who have expressed support for our pilots. Your kind words have been much appreciated.
Barry Jackson
President
Australian and International Pilots Association
Published on Saturday, 29 October 2011 20:23Alan Joyce’s decision to ground the entire Qantas fleet is nothing short of a maniacal overreaction, the Australian and International Pilots Association said today.
AIPA Vice President Richard Woodward said the move was pre-meditated, unnecessary and grossly irresponsible.
“Alan Joyce is holding a knife to the nation’s throat,” Captain Woodward said.
“No one predicted this – because no one thought Alan Joyce was completely mad. This is a stunning overreaction. It is straight-up blackmail.
“I knew he was trying to kill Qantas, but I didn’t know he wanted to do it this quickly.
“This is a grave and serious situation and the board should move to sack Mr Joyce immediately. This is the saddest day of my 25 years with Qantas.
“AIPA’s industrial action has been limited to making brief, positive in-flight announcements and wearing red ties. In response to this, Mr Joyce has now locked out every pilot working for Qantas. This is nothing short of crazy behaviour.
“Mr Joyce is stranding thousands of Qantas passengers all across the globe so he can engage in his mad game of one-upmanship. All so he can pursue his delusion that Qantas should be an Asian airline, instead of an Australian one.
“We believe this action is unlawful and we are currently seeking legal advice. He has locked out short-haul 737 pilots who aren’t even involved in any action at all.
“This would have been planned months in advance. Let’s be clear about this: Mr Joyce would have planned to strand thousands of Qantas passengers all across the globe months ago.
“To ground your entire fleet – when doing so is completely unnecessary – is not the act of a sane and reasonable person.
“He has snatched his ill-deserved millions on Friday and grounded the airline on Saturday. It’s just tragic and unnecessary.”
By: - 30th October 2011 at 01:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What is the Qantas dispute all about?
Updated October 30, 2011 09:05:43
Qantas planes on Sydney airport tarmac Photo: The fleet grounding will impact 108 planes at 22 airports, domestically and internationally (AAP: Mick Tsikas)
Related Story: Irate passengers vow to abandon Qantas
Related Story: Industrial umpire adjourns Qantas hearing
Related Story: Qantas grounding a 'disaster' for tourism
Related Story: Wrong Alan Joyce targeted on Twitter
Map: Australia
Qantas has announced the immediate grounding of its entire fleet as a long-running industrial dispute with employees, including pilots and engineers, comes to a head.
Here are some facts about the stand-off:
Industrial action by three unions, representing engineers, baggage and catering staff and long-haul pilots, has been ongoing for several months over pay and conditions.
Qantas says that the strike action had until Saturday resulted in 70,000 passengers being affected, more than 600 flights cancelled and seven aircraft grounded.
The fleet grounding will impact 108 planes at 22 airports, domestically and internationally.
Jetstar flights, QantasLink flights and Qantas flights across the Tasman operated by Jetconnect will continue.
The dispute has cost the airline about $70 million in damages so far, with costs mounting at $15 million each week. Grounding the entire fleet will cost $20 million a day.
In July Qantas pilots on international routes began their first industrial action in 45 years with unauthorised in-flight announcements telling passengers about their dispute. Rolling strikes by engineers also began delaying thousands of passengers.
In August Qantas announced a restructure which will see 1,000 jobs slashed as part of a new emphasis on Asia, a move met with a firestorm of criticism from unions.
Later that month Qantas announced it had more than doubled its full-year net profit to $250 million but warned of challenging times ahead as it revamps its loss-making international arm.
In October Prime Minister Julia Gillard urged unions and Qantas to sort out their differences.
The airline flies to 208 destinations in 46 countries, operating more than 5,700 flights a week across all its brands domestically and more than 970 international flights. It moved 44.5 million passengers in the year ended June 2011.
By: - 30th October 2011 at 01:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Furious passengers in major cities around the world have vowed never to fly with Qantas again after being left stranded by the airline's unprecedented grounding.
Disgruntled travellers in London, New York, Bangkok, Singapore, Hong Kong, Frankfurt and countless other cities are desperately trying to make alternative arrangements after Qantas grounded its entire fleet of planes, leaving 80,000 passengers worldwide in limbo.
The airline announced the grounding of all domestic and international flights on Saturday in response to a protracted industrial dispute with employees.
The unions expressed outrage at the airline's annual general meeting on Friday that shareholders had voted to give Qantas CEO Alan Joyce a 71 per cent pay rise at the meeting while the protracted industrial disputes with pilots, engineers and baggage handlers continued.
Qantas grounding at a glance
All domestic and international flights grounded
Lockout of staff will commence Monday 8.00pm
At least 80,000 passengers affected worldwide
108 aircraft grounded in 22 airports around the globe
Qantas is organising alternative flights and accommodation for stranded passengers, and refunds for people yet to travel.
The Federal Government was only informed of Qantas' plan hours before it was announced.
Fair Work Australia adjourns hearing into dispute until 2pm Sunday
Business, tourism sectors fear major impact
Hotline for affected Qantas passengers: 13 13 13
Qantas updating passengers via its website, Facebook and Twitter
QantasLink and Jetstar will continue to operate flights
Mr Joyce told AM it was the unions' actions that triggered his decision to ground all Qantas flights.
"They walked out of the meeting. They said that they were annoyed that the shareholders... talked about escalating," he said.
"That was the threshold moment that changed everything and it was only after the AGM that we saw that.
"I told the board I had made the decision then to take the only action available to use and that was to lock out the members responsible for the industrial action."
An emergency Fair Work Australia hearing into the Qantas dispute, convened late last night, was adjourned until 2pm AEDT today.
Hundreds of passengers are stranded at the world's busiest international airport, Heathrow, after eight flights were cancelled this weekend.
QF32 was the first of three flights due out of Heathrow on Saturday (local time), but another two in Frankfurt are also on hold.
Audio: Alan Joyce speaks with business editor Peter Ryan (AM)
About 1,500 travellers at Heathrow's Terminal 3 are scrambling to find alternative flights home or accommodation, and say Qantas is providing very little help.
Passenger Rachel Smith described "chaos" at the Qantas check-in area in an email to ABC News Online.
"Luckily my travel dates are reasonably flexible but I do have work commitments in Sydney, including a business related stopover in Singapore, and re-booking with another airline has not been easy," she wrote.
"I'm now flying with Singapore Airlines in a few days and back at my flat in London to enjoy the rest of the weekend.
I have been a loyal gold frequent flyer for some years now and will never fly Qantas again. Enough is enough.
Qantas passenger Mark Thomson
"What about all the other poor people not in my position who are stranded in airports around the world? I travel regularly between London and Sydney but won't be flying with Qantas again."
British Airways flights between the UK and Australia are not expected to be disrupted, but passengers booked on code share flights, such as BA services operated by Qantas, will be affected.
Qantas' other Europe hub, Frankfurt, is also affected. Mark Thomson was set to return to Brisbane from Berlin, and told ABC News Online the shutdown means he will fly with other airlines in future.
Audio: Anger and distress at Sydney airport (AM)
"I have spent more than 60 minutes on hold to Qantas call centre with no success and can't get through to the afterhours number of my travel agent," he wrote.
"I have been a loyal gold frequent flyer for some years now and will never fly Qantas again. Enough is enough."
Entrepreneur and aviation expert Dick Smith says the union dispute and ensuing chaos is a result of passengers' high demand for low international airfares.
"That's been forced on the workers by us Australians, we're the ones who decided that we wanted to go with very low airfares," he said.
"An Australian business can't compete. You cannot pay Australian wages if you want globalised prices for things. When it comes to flying overseas, we all want low prices.
"I do have great sympathy for the pilots. Politicians protect their wages - you can't bring in cheap Chinese politicians."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-30/irate-passengers-vow-to-abandon-qantas/3608640
By: - 30th October 2011 at 01:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The push to destroy Qantas was revealed a few months ago:
This confirms what others have been saying for a while about how Qantas is subsidising Jetstar to its own detriment and to circumvent the Qantas Sale Act.
For those who haven't seen it, Senator Xenophon's speech of 23rd Aug is reproduced below.Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) (19:37): I rise to speak tonight on an issue that is close to the hearts of many Australians, and that is the future of our national carrier, Qantas. At 90, Qantas is the world's oldest continuously running airline. It is an iconic Australian company. Its story is woven into the story of Australia and Australians have long taken pride in the service and safety standards provided by our national carrier. Who didn't feel a little proud when Dustin Hoffman uttered the immortal line in Rain Man, 'Qantas never crashed'?
While it is true that Qantas never crashes, the sad reality is that Qantas is being deliberately trashed by management in the pursuit of short-term profits and at the expense of its workers and passengers. For a long time, Qantas management has been pushing the line that Qantas international is losing money and that Jetstar is profitable. Tonight, it is imperative to expose those claims for the misinformation they are. The reality is that Qantas has long been used to subsidise Jetstar in order to make Jetstar look profitable and Qantas look like a burden. In a moment, I will provide detailed allegations of cost-shifting that I have sourced from within the Qantas Group, and when you know the facts you quickly see a pattern. When there is a cost to be paid, Qantas pays it, and when there is a profit to be made, Jetstar makes it.
But first we need to ask ourselves: why? Why would management want Qantas to look unprofitable? Why would they want to hide the cost of a competing brand within their group, namely Jetstar, in amongst the costs faced by Qantas?
To understand that, you need to go back to the days when Qantas was being privatised. When Qantas was privatised the Qantas Sale Act 1992 imposed a number of conditions, which in turn created a number of problems for any management group that wanted to flog off parts of the business. Basically, Qantas has to maintain its principal place of operations here in Australia, but that does not stop management selling any subsidiaries, which brings us to Jetstar.
Qantas has systematically built up the low-cost carrier at the expense of the parent company. I have been provided with a significant number of examples where costs which should have been billed back to Jetstar have in fact been paid for by Qantas. These are practices that I believe Qantas and Jetstar management need to explain. For example, when Jetstar took over the Cairns-Darwin-Singapore route, replacing Qantas flights, a deal was struck that required Qantas to provide Jetstar with $6 million a year in revenue. Why? Why would one part of the business give up a profitable route like that and then be asked to pay for the privilege? Then there are other subsidies when it comes to freight. On every sector Jetstar operates an A330, Qantas pays $6,200 to $6,400 for freight space regardless of actual uplift. When you do the calculations, this turns out to be a small fortune. Based on 82 departures a week, that is nearly half-a-million dollars a week or $25∏ million a year.
Then there are the arrangements within the airport gates. In Melbourne, for example, my information from inside the Qantas group is that Jetstar does not pay for any gates, but instead Qantas domestic is charged for the gates. My question for Qantas management is simple: are these arrangements replicated right around Australia and why is Qantas paying Jetstar's bills? Why does Qantas lease five check-in counters at Sydney Terminal 2, only to let Jetstar use one for free? It has been reported to me that there are other areas where Jetstar's costs magically become Qantas's costs. For example, Jetstar does not have a treasury department and has only one person in government affairs. I am told Qantas's legal department also does free work for Jetstar.
Then there is the area of disruption handling where flights are cancelled and people need to be rebooked. Here, insiders tell me, Qantas handles all rebookings and the traffic is all one way. It is extremely rare for a Qantas passenger to be rebooked on a Jetstar flight, but Jetstar passengers are regularly rebooked onto Qantas flights. I am informed that Jetstar never pays Qantas for the cost of those rebooked passengers and yet Jetstar gets to keep the revenue from the original bookings. This, I am told, is worth millions of dollars every year. So Jetstar gets the profit while Qantas bears the costs of carriage. It has also been reported to me that when Qantas provides an aircraft to Jetstar to cover an unserviceable plane, Jetstar does not pay for the use of this plane.
Yet another example relates to the Qantas Club. Jetstar passengers can and do use the Qantas Club but Jetstar does not pay for the cost of any of this. So is Qantas really losing money? Or is it profitable but simply losing money on paper because it is carrying so many costs incurred by Jetstar? We have been told by Qantas management that the changes that will effectively gut Qantas are necessary because Qantas international is losing money but, given the inside information I have just detailed, I would argue those claims need to be reassessed.
Indeed, given these extensive allegations of hidden costs, it would be foolish to take management's word that Qantas international is losing money. So why would Qantas want to make it look like Qantas international is losing money? Remember the failed 2007 private equity bid by the Allco Finance Group. It was rejected by shareholders, and thank goodness it was, for I am told that what we are seeing now is effectively a strategy of private equity sell-off by stealth.
Here is how it works. You have to keep Qantas flying to avoid breaching the Qantas Sale Act but that does not stop you from moving assets out of Qantas and putting them into an airline that you own but that is not controlled by the Qantas Sale Act. Then you work the figures to make it appear as though the international arm of Qantas is losing money. You use this to justify the slashing of jobs, maintenance standards and employment of foreign crews and, ultimately, the creation of an entirely new airlines to be based in Asia and which will not be called Qantas. The end result? Technically Qantas would still exist but it would end up a shell of its former self and the Qantas Group would end up with all these subsidiaries it can base overseas using poorly paid foreign crews with engineering and safety standards that do not match Australian standards. In time, if the Qantas Group wants to make a buck, they can flog these subsidiaries off for a tidy profit. Qantas management could pay the National Boys Choir and the Australian Girls’ Choir to run to the desert and sing about still calling Australia home, but people would not buy it. It is not just about feeling good about our national carrier—in times of trouble our national carrier plays a key strategic role. In an international emergency, in a time of war, a national carrier is required to freight resources and people around the country and around the world. Qantas also operates Qantas Defence Services, which conducts work for the RAAF. If Qantas is allowed to wither, who will meet these strategic needs?
I pay tribute to the 35,000 employees of the Qantas Group. At the forefront of the fight against the strategy of Qantas management have been the Qantas pilots, to whom millions of Australians have literally entrusted their lives. The Australian and International Pilots Association sees Qantas management strategy as a race to the bottom when it comes to service and safety. On 8 November last year, QF32 experienced a serious malfunction with the explosion of an engine on an A380 aircraft. In the wrong hands, that plane could have crashed. But it did not, in large part because the Qantas flight crew had been trained to exemplary world-class standards and knew how to cope with such a terrifying reality. I am deeply concerned that what is being pursued may well cause training levels to fall and that as a result safety standards in the Qantas Group may fall as well. AIPA pilots and the licensed aircraft engineers are not fighting for themselves; they are fighting for the Australian public. That is why I am deeply concerned about any action Qantas management may be considering taking against pilots who speak out in the public interest.
A lot of claims have been made about the financial state of Qantas international but given the information I have presented tonight, which has come from within the Qantas Group, I believe these claims by management are crying out for further serious forensic investigation. Qantas should not be allowed to face death by a thousand cuts—job cuts, route cuts, quality cuts, engineering cuts, wage cuts. None of this is acceptable and it must all be resisted for the sake of the pilots, the crews, the passengers and ultimately the future of our national carrier.
By: - 3rd November 2011 at 03:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The sad fact about this mess is that both sides are equally culpable; the Australian trade unions have such a strong grip on the aviation industry and Joyce was attempting to use (utterly irrational) strong arm tactics to break the unions' resolve. Here is an example of how much power these unions have. Ansett, now deceased operated the only 3 crew 767s in the world because of pressure from the aircrew unions; the initial five were built with a flight engineer's station.
Nevertheless, Alan Joyce's decision is utter madness. His aim of getting the Federal government to step into the melee might actually backfire for him. His vision for the international arm of Qantas to be based off shore goes against everything the airline once stood for. Qantas management need to be pushed out the door and the airline's future strategy needs to be streamlined to enable the airline to "get back to basics" and do what it traditionally did so well.
Interesting reading in this post, by the way. very sad state of affairs. Meanwhile, one other major transtasman airline is benefitting quite well from the lack of competition!
By: - 4th November 2011 at 06:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just to add to Qantas's current turmoil, I believe they've had another problem with an A380's engine, which landed at Dubai en route from Singapore to London after a mid-air shut-down related to oil feed issues.
By: - 4th November 2011 at 07:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And Stephen Fry was on board.
By: - 4th November 2011 at 10:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just to add to Qantas's current turmoil, I believe they've had another problem with an A380's engine, which landed at Dubai en route from Singapore to London after a mid-air shut-down related to oil feed issues.
Well hopefully the press and all the other 'Dismal Jimmys' will remember that this is an engine problem, and in no way the fault of Airbus.
By: - 4th November 2011 at 18:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm sure they (the press) won't.
Why waste a good opportunity to bash a superb example of European engineering?
Posts: 8,846
By: Newforest - 29th October 2011 at 08:10
Breaking news now due to labour dispute.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15504838