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By: 24th January 2011 at 11:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Ok, Rab, no idea why this is in the photographic section. Topic moved.
By: 24th January 2011 at 12:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Idiot. Mind you, the fact that people do stupid things seems to be part of the human condition, except that in this case there was a clear safety issue.
By: 24th January 2011 at 13:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-It appears a bit over-stated.
He wasn't flying the aircraft, the captain was!
By: 24th January 2011 at 14:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-That's hardly the point is it? Had something happened to the Captain he would have taken the responsibility as he was "one of the three pilots in charge of the Boeing 767". I cannot see that anything has been over-stated in the report.
By: 24th January 2011 at 14:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I think that the Captain would have been astute enough to recognise his condition and would have either reported him or not allowed him to sit in the right-hand seat!
By: 24th January 2011 at 14:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Surely he shouldn't have allowed him to board the aircraft, and should have reported him? As for accepting his condition and "allowing him to be a passenger" then the Captain would have been complicit in the act. That's simply not acceptable is it, or am I just being naive?:confused: :(
By: 24th January 2011 at 14:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-La Perle pleaded guilty to performing an aviation function with excess alcohol in the blood.Neil Fitzgibbon, defending, said it was a ‘terrible misjudgment’ and La Perle, who has also flown for American Airlines, was deeply remorseful.
Sorry for asking what might be a rather stupid question, but how can you have someone defend you if you choose to plead guilty...is it just so that he can try to get a lesser punishment by confessing from the start?:confused:
At the end of the day, the guy was found to be over the limit...you can't claim it was a ‘terrible misjudgment’ and that you're deeply remorseful when you do something like this, and now sadly it will more than likely cost him his job and be the end of his career in aviation (well certainly flying, that is for sure!).
By: 24th January 2011 at 17:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-As for accepting his condition and "allowing him to be a passenger" then the Captain would have been complicit in the act. That's simply not acceptable is it, or am I just being naive?:confused: :(
You can't just depart without the appropriate number of crew - there were three flight deck crew rostered for a reason. If it had come to the captain's attention, he should have said "Look bud, you've got a problem. You need to take yourself off of the flight and tell the company you have a problem". That way its likely to be solved through therapy/rehab program. If the guy refuses to do anything, that's when the captain has to tell the company.
At the end of the day, the guy was found to be over the limit...you can't claim it was a ‘terrible misjudgment’ and that you're deeply remorseful when you do something like this, and now sadly it will more than likely cost him his job and be the end of his career in aviation (well certainly flying, that is for sure!).
Alcohol does strange things to peoples judgement - even pilots holding positions of significant safety responsibility.
A rehab program sometimes gets them back again even after incidents like this, but in this case the six jail sentence may prove to be too big a hurdle, if only because some countries decline or revoke visas for people who have been convicted.
Andy
By: 24th January 2011 at 17:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-"You can't just depart without the appropriate number of crew - there were three flight deck crew rostered for a reason. If it had come to the captain's attention, he should have said "Look bud, you've got a problem. You need to take yourself off of the flight and tell the company you have a problem". That way its likely to be solved through therapy/rehab program. If the guy refuses to do anything, that's when the captain has to tell the company."
I presumed that would be the case - the suggestion I quoted was from another earlier post. Seems a very casual way of dealing with a senior officer unfit to perform his duties, and a potential hazard to his crew and his passengers. Maybe that's how it works in the airline business - I'm glad I rarely fly these days!
By: 24th January 2011 at 17:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-A flight can't be legally dispatched without the minimum number of crew. So if one pilot out of three is unfit to fly and the flight legally required three, then the flight has to be delayed until another crew member is found, or the flight is cancelled. The captain's absolute first responsibility is to the safety of the flight, the crew and the passengers. But beyond that there is room for compassion - if the problem is recognized and the person involved is prepared to acknowledge the problem and seek help (and subsequently prove that things have changed), then often the industry will give folks a second chance. Bluntly it costs too much to train, qualify and recruit a pilot so if a problem like this can be fixed to the satisfaction of the airline, the regulatory authority and the person involved, often it will be fixed rather than casting out the individual concerned.
Andy
By: 24th January 2011 at 22:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Not a pretty situation at all !
Not a pretty situation at all !
Pilots (good and excellent ones) seeking jobs and an experienced pilot has to go and soil his copybook.
It's easy to be moral philosophers but the stresses on human beings just now is taking it's toll during the prolonged economic recession and this seems to be a classic case,of priorities gone haywire.
I agree with Andy it was either the culprit came to 'recognise himself in the mirror' and through Delta sought counselling and rehab. or the Captain had to spill the beans.
The flight could not have left the ground until a replacement was found as the right seat could not have been occupied by the very 'hungover' pilot.
By: 25th January 2011 at 11:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-According to the newspaper the above pilot got 6mth, i just think that he should have his licence taken off him, according to the report he was 4 times the legal limit for driving a car, just think what could have happened if he did get to fly the aircraft and an emergency happened.
By: 25th January 2011 at 11:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Posters have referred to the pilot recognizing his problem and being counselled and having therapy and finally proving himself "clean", during which time he is presumably being paid. Or is he suspended without pay? Seems to me that there are a few pilots out there, out of work and qualified on type, who would gladly step into the breach, with perhaps a modicum of training. No?
By: 25th January 2011 at 12:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Motorists tested during the morning following "a few beers" the night before are often caught out for the same reason. Pretty basic stuff, really, isn't it?
By: 25th January 2011 at 12:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I think we have to be careful on believing the spin that the media put on these things.
Now first off, let me say I do not condone what he has done in any way, shape or form.
The reason the drink/fly limit is 20mg is because this is the lowest recordable level of alcohol in the blood without even consuming any. Any amount of alcohol will push you over the limit - period. But the title was a tad overdramatic to say the least, was he drunk? Absolutely not. Was it potentially catastrophic? Absolutely not. 4 x the legal drink/fly limit will take him to 80mg, this is the legal drink/drive limit in the uk, not above it. If you have had 1 pint do you feel drunk? I somehow doubt it. It is very over dramatic just to make a story. I do however, think the guy needs shooting. 27vet is right, if you are flying the next day just lay off the alcohol.
Also you cannot be prosecuted on the road for failing a breath test either, you have to have a blood test as well.
By: 25th January 2011 at 12:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Supposedly Lothian Buses have a random (on clocking in) breath test for drivers
Traces of alcohol can remain in the blood for 24 hours. The aviation limit is so low that a couple of beers the night before would probably show up the next morning. So it is best not to drink alcohol on the evening prior to a flight.
Hi 27vet
Supposedly Lothian Buses have a random (on clocking in) breath test for drivers.
No good professional pilots would do anything bar abstain for the necessary pre flight period therefore introducing this on major safety concious airlines may not cause too many Union protests. Administering it randomly may be a problem at out of 'home base' airports and possibly the requirement that all flight crew prior to boarding take the test may be easier to implement.
All good professional pilots please don't take my head off, I am not pointing fingers at any of you that adhere strictly to the rules and ethics.;)
As already said by many the irresponsible media 'make hay even while the sun does not shine' with reporting sensationalistic 'garbage'.
By: 25th January 2011 at 13:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I think we have to be careful on believing the spin that the media put on these things.Now first off, let me say I do not condone what he has done in any way, shape or form.
The reason the drink/fly limit is 20mg is because this is the lowest recordable level of alcohol in the blood without even consuming any. Any amount of alcohol will push you over the limit - period. But the title was a tad overdramatic to say the least, was he drunk? Absolutely not. Was it potentially catastrophic? Absolutely not. 4 x the legal drink/fly limit will take him to 80mg, this is the legal drink/drive limit in the uk, not above it. If you have had 1 pint do you feel drunk? I somehow doubt it. It is very over dramatic just to make a story. I do however, think the guy needs shooting. 27vet is right, if you are flying the next day just lay off the alcohol.
Also you cannot be prosecuted on the road for failing a breath test either, you have to have a blood test as well.
That is objectively and rationally put. I suppose we cannot ignore the potential for greater hazard for a pilot with excess alcohol in his system than for a motorist.
Posts: 703
By: rab5869 - 24th January 2011 at 11:08
George La Perle was due to fly a Delta Airlines 767 to Detroit - not New York, as he thought
George La Perle arrived at Heathrow for his flight more than four times the legal alcohol limit for pilots.
When suspicious officials questioned him, he said he thought he was flying to New York – when, in fact, his flight was bound for Detroit.
Judge Phillip Matthews told him: ‘The consequences for the passengers on that plane, if you had piloted for any stage of that journey, which was a distinct possibility bearing in mind that is what you were employed to do, were potentially catastrophic.’
The Delta Airlines first officer, who had 20 years’ experience, was to be one of three pilots in charge of the Boeing 767 on November 1. The flight, with up to 241 passengers on board, was due to take off shortly after he arrived at 8.30am.
Security staff at Heathrow noticed he smelled strongly of alcohol, Isleworth crown court was told.
The 49-year-old, from Boston, claimed he had just a few beers during the previous evening.
Tests showed La Perle had four times the flying limit of 20milligrams of alcohol per 100millilitres of blood. His level was also above the limit for driving on roads in Britain.
La Perle pleaded guilty to performing an aviation function with excess alcohol in the blood.
Neil Fitzgibbon, defending, said it was a ‘terrible misjudgment’ and La Perle, who has also flown for American Airlines, was deeply remorseful.
Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/853475-pilot-who-was-too-drunk-to-fly-jailed-for-6-months#ixzz1BwwBHdgT