Navies news from around the world -III

[Tango III]

Analyst: Stretch sub-buying schedule

A top Congressional analyst suggests one alternative to ease the effect of paying for the Navy’s new missile submarine is to stretch the procurement schedule from 15 years to 19.

Ronald O’Rourke, naval analyst for the Congressional Research Service, wrote in a new report that stretching out the schedule would create more gaps between submarines, which would allow for greater use of split funding — the practice of paying for a ship in more than one year. O’Rourke wrote that expanding the schedule would mean eight of the proposed 12 submarines could be paid for in two-, three- or four-year increments. The Navy’s current plan would allow that option for only five of the subs, O’Rourke wrote.

The Navy now plans to buy the first SSBN(X) submarine — the replacement for today’s Ohio-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines — in 2019, and the last in 2033. O’Rourke’s alternative would purchase the first sub in 2017 and the last in 2035.
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[Distiller]

SSBN(X). A programme in a strategic vacuum with the Navy keen on spending money fast. If there would be any competent political leadership the Navy wouldn't be allowed to even look at SSBN(X) before the new treaty with the Russians is signed. And besides that a smaller missile is needed to replace the Trident D5.

[MisterQ]

SSBN(X). A programme in a strategic vacuum with the Navy keen on spending money fast. If there would be any competent political leadership the Navy wouldn't be allowed to even look at SSBN(X) before the new treaty with the Russians is signed. And besides that a smaller missile is needed to replace the Trident D5.

Why would a smaller missile be needed to replace trident, smaller means shorter range which means less flexible. As for not looking as new SSBNs before any new treaties, the russians are building updated SSBNs and missiles already, and it's not like a design happens overnight

[Tango III]

Russia conducts Navy anti-submarine drills in Sea of Japan

A mixed task force from the Russian Pacific Fleet started on Wednesday a series of anti-submarine warfare (ASW) drills in the Sea of Japan, a fleet spokesman said.

"Two task forces comprising missile destroyers and diesel-powered submarines are taking part in the drills in line with a regular training program," Capt. 1st Rank Roman Martov said.

The exercises involve a number of search-and-destroy missions, simulated torpedo attacks and live-fire drills with on-board artillery and air defense systems.
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[Tango III]

Ministry of Defence could have to cancel programmes to fill £36billion black hole

Defence chiefs could have to cancel whole equipment programmes to fill a £36billion black hole in its budget, an influential group of MPs has given warning.

The Public Accounts Committee said the Ministry of Defence’s funding shortfall could rise to more than £36 billion in the coming decade - many times the official estimate of £6 billion

The MPs had been investigating the department’s governance and budgeting arrangements were fit for purpose.They found that the current defence budget was “fundamentally unaffordable”.
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[Fedaykin]

Ministry of Defence could have to cancel programmes to fill £36billion black hole

Defence chiefs could have to cancel whole equipment programmes to fill a £36billion black hole in its budget, an influential group of MPs has given warning.

The Public Accounts Committee said the Ministry of Defence’s funding shortfall could rise to more than £36 billion in the coming decade - many times the official estimate of £6 billion

The MPs had been investigating the department’s governance and budgeting arrangements were fit for purpose.They found that the current defence budget was “fundamentally unaffordable”.
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No mention of the carriers in the actual report, cheap headline to get attention.

The penalty fees for cancellation would suck up much of the saving, with the price of the UK's expeditionary capability and whats left of our shipbuilding.

[Colombamike]

No mention of the carriers in the actual report, cheap headline to get attention.The penalty fees for cancellation would suck up much of the saving, with the price of the UK's expeditionary capability and whats left of our shipbuilding.

Yeah, not mention of the carrier, but
- The 2 carriers = +/- 5 billion £
- and the 8 billion £ projected for buy around 80 (now 50) F-35
with 13-14 billion £ for this program, the TENTATION is great

[kev 99]

Yeah, not mention of the carrier, but
- The 2 carriers = +/- 5 billion £
- and the 8 billion £ projected for buy around 80 (now 50) F-35
with 13-14 billion £ for this program, the TENTATION is great

As already stated cancellation costs for the carriers means little or no savings there, only savings are to be made on aircraft and nobody knows how many we're buying.

[MisterQ]

Yeah, not mention of the carrier, but
- The 2 carriers = +/- 5 billion £
- and the 8 billion £ projected for buy around 80 (now 50) F-35
with 13-14 billion £ for this program, the TENTATION is great

A: pretty much all your figures are wrong

B: the temptation is not great (the job losses and bad PR would be a disaster for a new government)

C: Their is little money to be saved due to penalty fees

The safest bet about the carriers is that the Tories will look to put them back on the original schedule and save the £1billion the change in delivery date is projected to cost.

[Tango III]

The sixth Virginia class attack submarine.

Submarine New Mexico to commissioned Saturday

The Navy is getting ready to commission its newest nuclear submarine.

This Saturday the New Mexico will be the latest to join the Navy’s attack submarine fleet.
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[Tango III]

Russia: Mistrals Must Be Sold Fully Equipped

Negotiations on the French sale of four warships to Russia ran into choppy waters March 25 when Moscow insisted the Mistral-class vessels must be delivered fully equipped.

The French defense ministry responded that President Nicolas Sarkozy had clearly told Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that the amphibious assault ships would be sold without sensitive equipment.
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[Tango III]

Related News:

New class U.K.frigate, Type 26.

Computer-generated image of the Type 26 combat ship.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...xtWarships.htm

[90inFIRST]

Looks like an evolution of the BAE design seen earlier. The rear phalanx seems poorly sighted with a blind spot to port, a 76 which has to be a **** poor idea, CODAG and has lost the 23's magazine lunched torpedos for some cheapo deck mounted idea.

Colombamike why all the smiles plastered over your reply about CVF? Its great they wont be built? Hilarious 10,000 will be out of a job and the uk ship building will disappaer? Your really pleased the RN will be destroyed? how is any of that funny?

[Sens]

A: pretty much all your figures are wrong

B: the temptation is not great (the job losses and bad PR would be a disaster for a new government)

C: Their is little money to be saved due to penalty fees

The safest bet about the carriers is that the Tories will look to put them back on the original schedule and save the £1billion the change in delivery date is projected to cost.

There are no real losses by cutting that program. Even the money spent was to pay someone already. The gains from cutting military spending will lower the debts of every taxpayer. Military items are not an investment to earn money from, but it is a burden for every economy most of the time.
At least when most navies do show their impotence against asymmetrical piracy.
By the way there is a reason, why the British pound is under constant pressure. The banking crisis burned money and sunk the carrier-program already.

Sorry, my mistake, no personal ideas about a news only thread.

[90inFIRST]

uk public spending will be @ 7000 billion over the next decade cutting CVF wont make a jot of difference to my tax bill, I'll have to pay for it any way. Since I'm paying I would like to actually see to ships and not a pissing great payment to BAE share holders and no ships! In the same time scale the Goverment want to put the worlds biggest tidal barrage in to the bristol channel at 20 bilion. Cut that ******!

[90inFIRST]

Social security and Health care roll out at @ 260 billion this year alone, construction of CVF is around 500million a year. Have a look under the cushions of the NHS sofa the small change you find there will pay for CVF

[Sens]

uk public spending will be @ 7000 billion over the next decade cutting CVF wont make a jot of difference to my tax bill, I'll have to pay for it any way. Since I'm paying I would like to actually see to ships and not a pissing great payment to BAE share holders and no ships! In the same time scale the Goverment want to put the worlds biggest tidal barrage in to the bristol channel at 20 bilion. Cut that ******!

All that keeps your society going including the related jobs. Most of the BAE share holders will spent their money in the UK, with or without that ships already. That ships will not rise the security of the NATO.

[swerve]

...Most of the BAE share holders will spent their money in the UK, ....

What? They'll travel here to spend it, or do it remotely?

Where do you think BAe shareholders live? It's been quite a while since they were mostly British.

[Anixtu]

Looks like an evolution of the BAE design seen earlier. The rear phalanx seems poorly sighted with a blind spot to port, a 76 which has to be a **** poor idea, CODAG and has lost the 23's magazine lunched torpedos for some cheapo deck mounted idea.

Ah, crap, I was wondering what that gun was and I think you've got it.

Those aren't torpedo tubes on deck, they are Outfit DLF decoy launchers as currently fitted to other RN units.

[MisterQ]

There are no real losses by cutting that program. Even the money spent was to pay someone already. The gains from cutting military spending will lower the debts of every taxpayer. Military items are not an investment to earn money from, but it is a burden for every economy most of the time.
At least when most navies do show their impotence against asymmetrical piracy.
By the way there is a reason, why the British pound is under constant pressure. The banking crisis burned money and sunk the carrier-program already.

Sorry, my mistake, no personal ideas about a news only thread.

For a sunk program the money is being spent at fair clip, not to mention the 2 main parties saying it's protected. The losses from cutting the program are the penaties and the job losses essentially you give a grat chunk of cash to Bae to lay off almost all it's shipbuilders and then pay benefits to those workers who no longer have jobs, with the program going not only do you not have to pay the benefits you also get to claw back some fo the cost through taxation/

[pred]

That deck gun has a bit of everything in it. Could be the 76mm but not quite. Maybe it is the Oto Melara 127mm/64, same as the German F125 after they decided their navalised 155mm was not going to work. Or a new turret for the BAE 155mm version of the Mk8. But this is only the latest concept. Expect some changes here and there.

[kev 99]

That deck gun has a bit of everything in it. Could be the 76mm but not quite. Maybe it is the Oto Melara 127mm/64, same as the German F125 after they decided their navalised 155mm was not going to work. Or a new turret for the BAE 155mm version of the Mk8. But this is only the latest concept. Expect some changes here and there.

It's been suggested on Warships 1 that it's a 127mm, there's also been suggestions that the turret doesn't quite match.

A report in one of Barrow's local papers suggested that tests for the 155mm had been going well but funding had dried up, this was a couple of months ago.

[Distiller]

Related News:

New class U.K.frigate, Type 26.

Computer-generated image of the Type 26 combat ship.

...

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...xtWarships.htm

So, will it be based on the Daring hull?

[swerve]

So, will it be based on the Daring hull?

Oh, if only we knew!

[orko_8]

So, will it be based on the Daring hull?

According to Jane's the C1 baseline design calls for ship of 141m in length and 6,850t displacement. Armament options include Futue Local Area Air Defence System (Maritime), Common Anti-air Modular Missile; Tomahawk or Storm Shadow cruise missiles, a modified M270 launch system, Harpoon anti-ship missiles; as for main gun 127 mm, 155 mm or refurbished 4.5 inch (114 mm) Mk 8. Capable of operating a Chinook, hangar for a Merlin + UAV.

3D images show a rather traditional design, doesnt seem to be based on Daring IMHO.

[Wanshan]

Looks like an evolution of the BAE design seen earlier. The rear phalanx seems poorly sighted with a blind spot to port, a 76 which has to be a **** poor idea, CODAG and has lost the 23's magazine lunched torpedos for some cheapo deck mounted idea.

Colombamike why all the smiles plastered over your reply about CVF? Its great they wont be built? Hilarious 10,000 will be out of a job and the uk ship building will disappaer? Your really pleased the RN will be destroyed? how is any of that funny?

That gun looks a bit too large to be a 76mm. It might be an Italian 127mm/54 (5") LW mount though. This can fire the 70km range 'Vulcano' fin-stabilized projectile, essentially the OTO-Melara competitor to ERGM and BTERM. This mount will be fitted to the German F-125 frigates

[Wanshan]

Then again, there also are similarities with the US 5-inch (127mm), 62-caliber Mk45 Mod 4 gun ... (first pic below).

It doesn't look like the 155m Braveheart NGS though (2nd pic)

By the way, there is also the 84km range Italian 127/65 LC, which is a development of the 127/54 LW.

See: http://base.mforos.com/761386/639099...ente-y-futura/

[Stonewall]

The last F-100 Spanish frigate, F-105 "Cristobal Colon" will be lauched on the 1st Week of november 2010

Details (In spanish)
http://www.infodefensa.com/esp/notic...re%20de%202010

[R38]

Gents, I humbly suggest that the gun mount very deliberately looks a bit like a number of real systems but not precisely like any for the simple reason that no gun has yet been selected!

It's worth bearing in mind that, as I understand it, the design work on T26 has not yet started in earnest. That is what this new contract will deliver. What we see in these images is a concept and nothing more. It may therefore be futile reading too much into them at this stage.

Btw, off topic, but the commander of HMS Turbulent has let slip on an official RN blog that the names of the remaining Astute boats will be: Agamenon, Anson and Ajax. Haven't seen anyone pick it up yet, but there's a link from the wiki entry on the class. Personally, i'd have preferred Ajax was next up in case 6 & 7 get axed in the SDR. And surely Achilles before Anson?

Regards

R38

[kev 99]

Gents, I humbly suggest that the gun mount very deliberately looks a bit like a number of real systems but not precisely like any for the simple reason that no gun has yet been selected!

It's worth bearing in mind that, as I understand it, the design work on T26 has not yet started in earnest. That is what this new contract will deliver. What we see in these images is a concept and nothing more. It may therefore be futile reading too much into them at this stage.

Btw, off topic, but the commander of HMS Turbulent has let slip on an official RN blog that the names of the remaining Astute boats will be: Agamenon, Anson and Ajax. Haven't seen anyone pick it up yet, but there's a link from the wiki entry on the class. Personally, i'd have preferred Ajax was next up in case 6 & 7 get axed in the SDR. And surely Achilles before Anson?

Regards

R38

It's been reported on at least one other forum