Key.Aero Network
Register Free

Page 9 of 34 FirstFirst ... 567891011121319 ... LastLast
Results 241 to 270 of 1010

Thread: Rafale News IX

  1. #241
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,036
    Quote Originally Posted by TMor View Post
    http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-ro...e-sur-rafale--



    I hope my translation is better than the Google's.
    will a simulator ride be all that they do to demonstrate the Rafale's weapons trials ? I don't think that it will be all. The Adl'A will have to probably fly the B301 demonstrator, demonstrate the RBE-2 AESA modes and then do some MICA, AASM and maybe some GBU trials.

  2. #242
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,655
    actually, the article states that they put into practice in real flight (in a two seater) what they learned in one day in the simulator...

    it, basically, undelines the used-friendly interface of the rafale (more or less, you could read that "any guy knowing to fly will manage to do soemthing with it with only one day training")

  3. #243
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Near Paris (France)
    Posts
    1,448
    A firm from Boudry embarks on board the Rafale fighter

    Assembling Systems , the company from Boudry, boarded the Rafale fighter. After considering its capabilities, the company has been selected to become a supplier of Dassault Aviation and Labinal, a consortium of industrial companies of the Rafale.

    Assembling Systems, which designs electrical wiring of high technology, is ideally positioned as if the federal government retains the Rafale to replace the F-5 Tiger of the Swiss army
    http://www.arcinfo.ch/journal/region...at_rafale.html
    Rafale news blog by Kovy :
    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

    The Rafale international forum :
    http://rafale.freeforums.org/

  4. #244
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    11
    Interresting after RUAG's involvement...
    Rafale might be no more a "French aircraft" but basically a "Swiss-Brasilian-French aircraft"?
    Poor France!

    Best regards
    Vorpal777

  5. #245
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    325
    http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-ro...e-sur-rafale--

    Actually, the Indian pilot was able to fly a single seat Rafale after only one morning briefing, this is pretty good and a testimony of the simplicity of the user interface and of the precision of the flight controls.

    Another interesting point is made about the AASM which were fired in a salvo on targets that were "découverts et recallés en cours de mission", discovered and retargeted in flight. Does that mean that F3 Rafales now have the ability to extract GPS coordinates of a target to reprogramm AASM in flight or that the target coordinates were transmitted while in flight?

  6. #246
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by torpedo View Post
    http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-ro...e-sur-rafale--
    Another interesting point is made about the AASM which were fired in a salvo on targets that were "découverts et recallés en cours de mission", discovered and retargeted in flight. Does that mean that F3 Rafales now have the ability to extract GPS coordinates of a target to reprogramm AASM in flight or that the target coordinates were transmitted while in flight?
    Definitely, yes.

    Best regards
    Vorpal777

  7. #247
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    662
    Some people seem to believe that this event is the
    trials part of MMRCA.
    The Rafale was sent to Bangalore and Leh for those.
    That is the weapons' trial part only which happens
    at the manufacturer's location of choice.

  8. #248
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Near Paris (France)
    Posts
    1,448
    Rafale was in India from the 18th of September but i don't know when they left.

    http://www.bharat-defence.com/2009/0...bangalore.html
    On the 29th, they arrived in Bangalore.
    In Jaisalmer, they made air-to-ground demonstration, refuelled with IL-78 Midas, landed at their max weight, others tests with hot temperatures found in the region.
    Rafale news blog by Kovy :
    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

    The Rafale international forum :
    http://rafale.freeforums.org/

  9. #249
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,036
    Quote Originally Posted by torpedo View Post
    http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-ro...e-sur-rafale--

    Actually, the Indian pilot was able to fly a single seat Rafale after only one morning briefing, this is pretty good and a testimony of the simplicity of the user interface and of the precision of the flight controls.

    Another interesting point is made about the AASM which were fired in a salvo on targets that were "découverts et recallés en cours de mission", discovered and retargeted in flight. Does that mean that F3 Rafales now have the ability to extract GPS coordinates of a target to reprogramm AASM in flight or that the target coordinates were transmitted while in flight?
    While its true that piloting a single seater on a first flight is quite a big deal, one must keep in mind that the IAF guys who're evaluating the fighters for the MRCA are all senior, qualified Test-pilots. Most test pilots have flown several types and are in general, far more knowledgable than your average pilot and in general go solo after maybe a couple of sorties with an instructor.

    firing weapons is another thing altogether though. impressive that its easy to do it. the F-16 Block 60 and Typhoon demos during Def Expo 2010 also showed them to be quite easy for an experienced pilot.

  10. #250
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    1,442
    Here is a video of Sebastien Loeb (6 time world champion of WRC) having a ride in the rafale and visting St dizier AFB. starts around 3 min I think...

    For the record you can see Lcl grandclaudon at 5'50 (the guy from whom the ATLC polemic arrived-the author of the press conference)


    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcq...l-air-5-6_tech

    Serge Dassault interview afterward...The first thing that his father did after coming back from Buchenwald camp where he was deported as jew after WW2 was to ask for a drawing board in his room.

    Also a not so well known fact and for everyone culture one of Marcel Dassault's school mate at Sup aero engineer school in 1913 (Toulouse) was Michail Guverich the founder of MIG.

    Quite unexpected !

    http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institu...e_l'espace
    Last edited by arthuro; 28th March 2010 at 20:53.

  11. #251
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    West of Paris, France
    Posts
    143
    What S. Dassault also said after the presenter (M. Drucker) asserted that the Rafale was the best fighter in the world, is that she wasn't the best but one of the best.

    If he wasn't a crook, I would say that it was true modesty from his part. Thank God he's more interested in media and politics.

  12. #252
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,655
    just a reminder, the indian pilots did not fly the single seat aircraft alone.. they flew a dual seat one (basically, a "security pilot was behind, just in case) after training for a day in a simulator.

    French can have many flaws, but are not crazy enough to put a pilot with about a day of training alone in a high performance fighter

  13. #253
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Schimatari, Greece
    Posts
    593
    link broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by TooCool_12f View Post
    just a reminder, the indian pilots did not fly the single seat aircraft alone.. they flew a dual seat one (basically, a "security pilot was behind, just in case) after training for a day in a simulator.

    French can have many flaws, but are not crazy enough to put a pilot with about a day of training alone in a high performance fighter

  14. #254
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    662
    There you go, Hawk :

    http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-romain/index.php/

    It's the front page. If you take undue time to go to it,
    you may have to scroll down.

  15. #255
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    662

  16. #256
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    1,442
    Quite some news in A&Cosmos today...

    A "stealth rafale demonstartor" will be funded (according to the very official 2010 french defense budget) to increase its stealth capabilites. According to air&Cosmos the solution that will be adopted is active stealth and will be developed by the CEA and the DGA. This capability should be operational with the 5th batch of the rafale program and is independent to other spectra developments. They also mention other techniques but unspecified. I'll try to scan the article this week end.

    development is to start this year.

  17. #257
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,683
    Anything "active" is inherently unstealthy and gives away the element of surprise.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  18. #258
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    1,442
    I think that the people who are deciding to invest millions in that field are aware of what they are doing. I don't think that a simple poster could decently challenge anything with a simple sentence when you know all the years and money poured in that field. It is quite mysterious for us even if we can understand the basics of how it works. But I don't think that anyone here is competent enough to seriously bring a thorough point of view otherwise you would be working in a research lab and won't right on an open forum like this one.
    It is quite useless to pontificate I think as a real thorough knowledge in this area.
    Last edited by arthuro; 2nd April 2010 at 17:21.

  19. #259
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    567
    Quote Originally Posted by arthuro View Post
    Quite some news in A&Cosmos today...

    A "stealth rafale demonstartor" will be funded (according to the very official 2010 french defense budget) to increase its stealth capabilites. According to air&Cosmos the solution that will be adopted is active stealth and will be developed by the CEA and the DGA. This capability should be operational with the 5th batch of the rafale program and is independent to other spectra developments. They also mention other techniques but unspecified. I'll try to scan the article this week end.

    development is to start this year.
    I wonder if it has any relation to this:
    http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/foru...p?topic=7807.0

    Also, they state "independent to other spectra developments" does the system not use SPECTRA at all, or does it imply that SPECTRA will gain other modes of jamming and detection in addition to the active cancellation(with or without SPECTRA)?

  20. #260
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Near Paris (France)
    Posts
    1,448
    Quote Originally Posted by arthuro View Post
    I think that the people who are deciding to invest millions in that field are aware of what they are doing. I don't think that a simple poster could decently challenge anything with a simple sentence when you know all the years and money poured in that field.
    You're just forgetting that our engineers are idiots. They draw saw tooth every where just for fun, make cartoonistic symbologies on the screens, design counter-intuitive cockpit layouts, pretend that a fine bomber is also a top-notch air-to-air fighter, etc...

    So, never try, in addition, to imply that Spectra is "magic".
    Rafale news blog by Kovy :
    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

    The Rafale international forum :
    http://rafale.freeforums.org/

  21. #261
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,234
    Quote Originally Posted by SpudmanWP View Post
    Anything "active" is inherently unstealthy and gives away the element of surprise.
    Well I could be a smartass and make you the same reply that sferrin/jackjack/wrightwing made to kkpwhatever in the 4.99 gen fighter thread.
    "allah akbar": NATO's new warcry.

  22. #262
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    1,756
    Quote Originally Posted by TMor View Post
    You're just forgetting that our engineers are idiots. They draw saw tooth every where just for fun, make cartoonistic symbologies on the screens, design counter-intuitive cockpit layouts, pretend that a fine bomber is also a top-notch air-to-air fighter, etc...

    So, never try, in addition, to imply that Spectra is "magic".
    i know france is one of the worlds leaders in submarine stealth/signal management
    so only an idiot would call your engineers idiots
    its good that info is publicly released about 'active stealth' development for the rafale, i look forward to reading the facts instead of just rumors that have been around and unproven

  23. #263
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    1,442
    Also, they state "independent to other spectra developments" does the system not use SPECTRA at all, or does it imply that SPECTRA will gain other modes of jamming and detection in addition to the active cancellation(with or without SPECTRA)?
    It is not mention if the future demonstrator will use spectra to use active cancelation although this is implicitly stated as they make the precision that new modes/improvements will emerge independently from this feature (which is the case for every batch). So most probably yes spectra will be used for AC.

    Second point : they mention "other unspecified features" to achieve stealth. I am pretty sure they talk about plasma stealth as there were several articles in A&C talking about experimental work on this feature in direct relation with the rafale. I remember (that was a few years ago) that they intended to apply this technology in one of the late 2010's rafale batch. Not very difficult to make the link when reading this new article.


    >>>For the record and for those whoa are not up to date with this problematic in relation to the rafale development :

    article from Bill swetman


    The Rafale EW suite, known as Spectra, is one of the most powerful systems installed on a fighter aircraft and is intimately associated with the unique approach to stealth and survivability designed into the Rafale. Dassault executives describe the Rafale as discreet rather than being stealthy in the sense of a F-22. To avoid detection, it combines avionics, tactics, and reduced radar reflectivity with some techniques that have not been directly revealed and are apparently unique.

    The first element of discretion is that Spectra's receiver system and the FSO help detect and track targets without using radar. Spectra incorporates a radio-frequency (RF) detection system, a missile-approach warning sensor, and a laser-warning system and provides full 360-degrees coverage. The RF detection subsystem uses prominent square-section antennas, mounted on the lower corners of the engine inlets and in the rear of the fin-top pod, covering 120 degrees each. The receiver antennas use interferometric techniques to measure a signal's angle of arrival within less than 1 degree and are designed so that they do not have a large radar-cross-section (RCS) contribution.

    The Rafale is also designed to use terrain masking, particularly at night or in bad, weather when visually cued short-range surface-to-air weapons are less effective. With its maneuverability and a high degree of cockpit automation, the fighter is designed to fly a terrain-avoidance/threat- avoidance profile at 5.5 g and 100 feet in altitude. The RBE2 and a terrain-referenced navigation system, using stored terrain data, are used to provide redundant flight guidance.

    Rafale makes extensive use of radar-absorbent material (RAM) in the form of paints and other materials, Dassault engineers have said. RAM forms a saw-toothed pattern on the wing and canard trailing edges, for instance. The aircraft is designed to so that its untreated radar signature is concentrated in a few strong "spikes," which are then suppressed by the selective use of RAM.

    Spectra's active jamming subsystem uses phased-array antennas located at the roots of the canards. Dassault has stated that the EW transmit antennas can produce a pencil beam compatible with the accuracy of the receiver system, concentrating power on the threat while minimizing the chances of detection.

    But there is more to Spectra than conventional jamming. Pierre-Yves Chaltiel, a Thales engineer on the Spectra program, remarked in a 1997 interview that Spectra uses "stealthy jamming modes that not only have a saturating effect, but make the aircraft invisible... There are some very specific techniques to obtain the signature of a real LO [low-observable] aircraft." When asked if he was talking about active cancellation, Chaltiel declined to answer.

    Earlier this year, Thales and European missile-builder MBDA disclosed that they were working on active-cancellation technology for cruise missiles and had already tested it on a small unmanned aerial vehicle, using a combination of active and passive techniques to manage radar signature. This revelation makes it considerably more likely that active cancellation is already being developed for Rafale.

    Active cancellation is a LO technique in which the aircraft, when painted by a radar, transmits a signal which mimics the echo that the radar will receive - but one half-wavelength out of phase, so that the radar sees no return at all. The advantage of this technique is that it uses very low power, compared with conventional EW, and provides no clues to the aircraft's presence; the challenge is that it requires very fast processing and that poorly executed active cancellation could make the target more rather than less visible.

    The complexity of active cancellation could account for Spectra's high price tag, estimated in 1997 as "several billion francs" (equivalent to the high hundreds of millions of US dollars) for research and development. One of four Rafale prototypes was dedicated to Spectra tests, along with a Falcon 20 flying testbed. Four new large anechoic chambers were built to support the Spectra project, including one which is large and well equipped enough to operate the complete system in a fully detailed electromagnetic environment.

    Spectra's RF systems are backed up by a laser-warning system, an optical missile-launch-warning system, and a full range of expendable countermeasures. There is no towed decoy system.
    ****

    MBDA-France has been developing active stealth systems that attempt to cancel the radar return from an airframe by transmitting a second signal of equal frequency and amplitude to the genuine return. Unlike Ram, this technique retains is effectiveness at low and medium frequencies, where the efficiency of passive stealth technology tends to decline.

    In 1999, the company conducted ground tests using a C-22 target drone fitted with an experimental active-stealth system, and flight tests conducted using ‘testbeds’ (probably C-22s) were carried out at the Centre d’Essais des Landes range at Biscarosse in southwest France.

    Possible applications for active stealth measures include the nose, seeker, wing-leading edges and engine air inlets of future missiles. France hopes to use such technology on the mid-life update of the Scalp EG air-to-surface cruise missile, and in next-generation supersonic missiles. Studies have been underway since the mid-1990s, when designers investigated a possible stealthy variant of the Apache with a redesigned fuselage of flattened triangular cross-section.
    Last edited by arthuro; 2nd April 2010 at 20:28.

  24. #264
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    1,756
    MBDA is indeed developing active cancellation for missile use since the mid 90"s and it is well documented

    bills article on the other hand has a lot to answer for, in my opinion he got confused with the DRFM

    lets just hope its not dated 1/4/10, the A&Cosmos article will have follow up reporting and statements from the developers presenting the facts of the situation, its goal may be to handle specific spikes in rcs, as its a big ask to do a whole frame
    the nuron ucav would be a platform i'd like to see the tech on too
    Last edited by jackjack; 3rd April 2010 at 13:41.

  25. #265
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Near Paris (France)
    Posts
    1,448
    This stealth demonstrator is planned at least since 2007 in an older official document. A&C just show that it's not been dropped.
    Rafale news blog by Kovy :
    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

    The Rafale international forum :
    http://rafale.freeforums.org/

  26. #266
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    1,442
    Here is the scan page about this program...
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  27. #267
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    1,756
    Quote Originally Posted by TMor View Post
    This stealth demonstrator is planned at least since 2007 in an older official document. A&C just show that it's not been dropped.
    ok, there is a topic on airdefense about that, do you have the link to the official doc or does dassalut etc have an info release about it ?
    i would like to have a read about it
    Last edited by jackjack; 3rd April 2010 at 13:39.

  28. #268
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    567
    Active cancellation could, in a sense, be considered the ultimate outgrowth of DRFM jamming.

  29. #269
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Near Paris (France)
    Posts
    1,448
    Quote Originally Posted by jackjack View Post
    ok, there is a topic on airdefense about that, do you have the link to the official doc or does dassalut etc have an info release about it ?
    i would like to have a read about it
    There is a guy on SP who gave the link numerous times. But nobody trusts him there... Funny, especially since now, this stealth demonstrator with "active stealth" measures are becoming reality.

    Projet de loi de finance 2007 :
    http://www.minefi.gouv.fr/performanc...10-defense.pdf
    page 57
    – la conception des systèmes aériens de combat futurs : des travaux seront entrepris sur un démonstrateur de discrétion pour le RAFALE, un démonstrateur d’hélicoptère du futur, un démonstrateur de conduite de tir air-sol et un démonstrateur de brouilleur offensif aéroporté ;
    Projet de loi de finance 2008 :
    http://www.performance-publique.gouv...BG_Defense.pdf
    page 59
    - les études de précision des frappes, d’adéquation des charges militaires aux effets recherchés, de conception des plates-formes futures et d’adaptation des systèmes existants : des travaux seront entrepris ou poursuivis sur plusieurs démonstrateurs - de missile sol-air à lancement vertical, de système intégré multifonctions électromagnétique, de missile de croisière, de missile de combat terrestre, de situation tactique inter opérable navale, de conduite de tir air-sol, de brouilleur offensif aéroporté, de discrétion pour le RAFALE et d’hélicoptère du futur.
    Rafale news blog by Kovy :
    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

    The Rafale international forum :
    http://rafale.freeforums.org/

  30. #270
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    1,756
    it depends on what they mean by active stealth, in this thread and others its assumed its active cancellation and not DRFM or the like
    i'm willing to accept the proposition and would like to read up on it for a clearer understanding
    they are the same links that are on AD and it is said it doesnt clarify the meaning
    http://translate.google.com.au/trans...en-US:official
    the quote "a demonstrator of discretion for the Rafale"doesnt sound like active cancellation to me as it could mean anything if the are 3 separate programs
    "the design of future combat air systems: work will be carried by a demonstrator of discretion for the Rafale, a demonstrator helicopter of the future, a prototype fire control and air-ground offensive airborne jammer demonstrator;"

    the second quote seems to read that the jammer provides the discretion for both rafale and chopper ?

    "- surface to air missile vertical launch of multifunctional integrated electromagnetic missile cruise missile land combat, tactical situation interoperable naval fire-control air-ground offensive airborne jammer, discretion for BURST and helicopter of the future."

    i take it there is no other release on the "demonstrator of discretion for the Rafale"
    Last edited by jackjack; 3rd April 2010 at 18:32.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

- Part of the    Network -

KEY AERO AVIATION NEWS

MAGAZINES

AVIATION FORUM

SHOP

 

WEBSITES