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Thread: PLAAF News, Photos and Speculation #12

  1. #511
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    Why not just go for the JF17? By the time you put all those fancy toys in and factored in the development costs, such a J7 would probably come close if not surpass the current JF17 price tag and not be nearly as capable.
    This is just a mental exercise, no serious proposition (and anyways, who cares about what I think?). I think a small AESA from China's parts bin may not be too expensive in 4-5 years. Plus new Chinese avionics and EW again wouldn't be that expensive either. Now engine change would admittedly be expensive and problematic. But what if Bangladesh wanted to modernize its F-7BGs 5 years down the line? Of course, we could just get JF-17s but maybe we could save some money and spend it on education and buy only a squadron of JF-17s or J-10s to augment our airforce (while upgrading the F-7s to make them lethal).

    Quote Originally Posted by vikasrehman View Post
    Yups.
    Im not sure if PLAAF would want to go for another upgrade of J-7 considering they are in the process of modifying their J-10 and J-11BS is also there. In theory, you can perhaps add all those toys to a J-7 but that would make it heavier, reducing its small range even further. Add CFTs? Yes and reduce the thrust? Add a more powerful engine?....Not feasible.
    I am pretty sure myself that PLAAF would not get into such an upgrade. I doubt if a small AESA would make the J-7s much heavier. We could simplify the cooling system and trade of a bit on performance. Newer avionics are also not that heavy. Of course, EW and ECM may be, but these can be rationalized. Then again, engine would make it expensive, unless there is an engine that fits in perfectly. CFTs would make zero sense (to me).
    Last edited by PLA-MKII; 23rd April 2009 at 21:23.

  2. #512
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    Post

    Here is what i have been working on for the past 3 weeks. the first portion of the article is below (a little too big to put it all here)

    The Dragon's New Claws: The J-10B Emerging


    In December 2008, rumors were rife of the J-10's latest incarnation, the J-10B to have taken off for the first time. Now in April 2009, we see for the initial leak of images for this plane. The J-10B appears as the next iteration of China's vaunted 4th Generation fighter and looks to take the J-10 to the 4.5 Generation level.

    The differences that have been identified from the earlier J-10 include a DSI intake, similar to the one on the FC-1/JF-17. The nose is now oval, more similar to an F-16's and is slightly canted downwards. An IRST similar to the J-11Bs also feature on top of the nose. Slanted radome paint along with some of the other features suggest an AESA radar.
    Deino's graphical representation of possible AESA




    The J-10B incorporates a new small ECM housing on the vertical stabilizer and this stabilizer also appears to be longer and ending in a "shark-fin". The ECM housing is similar to the housing on the JF-17. The two ventral fins are also extended further and are larger irrespective of the shark-fin. The aerodynamic refinements of the longer vertical stabilizer and the ventral fins appear to be a result of the DSI intakes which create greater lateral forces on the aircraft.

    The wide angle HUD featured on the J-11Bs seem to have also appeared on the J-10B. While it cannot be confirmed, it appears that the cockpit itself has been redesigned extensively. Other than the new ECM housing on the vertical stabilizer, new MAWs appear on the tail bump. Just below these, curious breaks appear on the fuselage that some observers are referring to as possible formation lights "slime lights", but expert opinion from a Lockheed Martin source suggest that they are FLIR sensors. A redesigned satellite communication unit appears right behind the cockpit.

    A retractable refueling probe is likely, given the development of the J-10 thus far, and is possibly located on the port side, not visible in the latest photographs. The photographs also suggest new under-wing pylons. These appear to be strengthened for a variety of possible uses, ranging from larger drop tanks to ASMs.

    The engine is likely to be either a redesigned WS-10A (B?) or possibly the WS-15, a new generation engine currently in advanced development. This would not only have higher thrust than the AL-31s, but also feature TVCs, giving the J-10Bs vaunted agility an even greater boost. The actual engine on the aircraft presently on the released pictures, is the AL-31.

    Like the J-10S, a J-10BS is also eventually likely. This would be an advanced trainer with the 360 degree view similar to the J-10S. EW/Wild Weasel variants could also eventually be possible.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by PLA-MKII; 25th April 2009 at 23:43.

  3. #513
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    ^^ while some of the above might be true based on various reports from various sources and pictures but grandstrategy, in general, is one of the worst sites to quote (exceeding even wikipedia in made up stuff).

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by good_old_viper View Post
    ^^ while some of the above might be true based on various reports from various sources and pictures but grandstrategy, in general, is one of the worst sites to quote (exceeding even wikipedia in made up stuff).
    Took a look. Seems to be an amateurish fanboy site and not an actual news outlet.

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21Ankush View Post
    AFM's article on the Bangladesh Air Force had mentioned that they are looking at the JF-17 as it has been offered to them. so I don't think that they will be looking to upgrade their J-7s. and anyway, they have the more capable MiG-29s in service, why not upgrade those instead ? its a far superior platform and they should have adequate hours on the airframe.
    Bangladesh has had a huge problem in finding the finances to keep their MiG-29s running.

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by good_old_viper View Post
    ^^ while some of the above might be true based on various reports from various sources and pictures but grandstrategy, in general, is one of the worst sites to quote (exceeding even wikipedia in made up stuff).
    Well, yours truly wrote it.

  7. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defexpo View Post
    Bangladesh has had a huge problem in finding the finances to keep their MiG-29s running.
    Yes, the F-7s would be by far the cheapest aircraft to keep operational.

  8. #518
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    http://www.5281.cn/2009/0219/1418.html

    J-11B.
    I know this is an old photo, but FWIW, the building in the background is the Shen Yang City People Tumour Hospital. North of the hospital is an air base or airport.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8...QOCif2JDA&cd=1

    And in Google Maps, in Map mode, the air base or airport is an unlabelled, nameless blank area.

    http://zinsser859.blog.163.com/blog/...0087302572078/

    Chicom MANPADS and UAVs.
    Last edited by Don Chan; 28th April 2009 at 17:57.
    Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

    http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

  9. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLA-MKII View Post
    Well, yours truly wrote it.
    So, you are part of the rumor mill?

    Just how on earth did you come up with this?

    "While it cannot be confirmed, it appears that the cockpit itself has been redesigned extensively.
    "


    Heck, not even a fanboy pic has been released that would make it "appear". I am not saying its not a possibility, since JF-17 cockpit is all glass, and the new gen cockpit that was displayed at the Zuhai show, but you cannot say "it appears" because there are no pictures or references to support that.



    " Just below these, curious breaks appear on the fuselage that some observers are referring to as possible formation lights "slime lights", but expert opinion from a Lockheed Martin source suggest that they are FLIR sensors. "

    I don't think pshamim is with LM any longer and neither do I think those are FLIR.

  10. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by good_old_viper View Post
    So, you are part of the rumor mill?

    Just how on earth did you come up with this?

    "While it cannot be confirmed, it appears that the cockpit itself has been redesigned extensively.
    "


    Heck, not even a fanboy pic has been released that would make it "appear". I am not saying its not a possibility, since JF-17 cockpit is all glass, and the new gen cockpit that was displayed at the Zuhai show, but you cannot say "it appears" because there are no pictures or references to support that.



    " Just below these, curious breaks appear on the fuselage that some observers are referring to as possible formation lights "slime lights", but expert opinion from a Lockheed Martin source suggest that they are FLIR sensors. "

    I don't think pshamim is with LM any longer and neither do I think those are FLIR.
    At least you took the time to read before jumping the gun

    According to some chinese sources I exchange emails with, the cockpit is very likely redesigned. I used "appears" metaphorically, surely there are no pictures and I have claimed none.

    pshamim may not be with LM but he can still have friends there no? Granted, I thought they were slime lights at first but I tend to value PShamim's posts more than others.

    By the way, how come no one is posting pictures of the PLAN party?

  11. #521
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    http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url...5/5/1izae.html
    reports on 5 May 2009 that some researcher named Kotani Tetsuo of the Japanese think-tank Ocean Policy Research Foundation claims a Chicom carrier will have no huge impact on cross-strait military power balance.
    OTOH, his essay also encourages the Chicom's neighbours, ie, Japan, South Korea, and the US military in them, to improve their intelligence and weapons to contain the China threat. 8b

    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/impo.../15454202.html
    to
    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/impo...5454202_3.html

    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/impo.../15267424.html
    to
    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/impo...267424_11.html

    J-11 prototype, for static and fluid dynamics tests, retires.

    ] how come no one is posting pictures of the PLAN party?

    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/impo.../15446572.html

    The English-to-Chinese translation is literal, but IMO not particularly funny, except the Chinese text is in traditional font (as used in Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan), not in the simplified font!
    Last edited by Don Chan; 5th May 2009 at 15:12.
    Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

    http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

  12. #522
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    http://hk.news.yahoo.com/article/090505/3/c0x3.html

    5 May 2009:
    HKGFS (Hong Kong Government Flying Service) will request HK$ 770 mil (HK$ 7.8 = US$ 1), to replace its existing two BAe Jetstream 41 fixed-wing SAR planes.
    The existing two Jetstream 41s are 10 years old, discontinued production, and their spare parts will run out in four years.
    The article doesn't specify the new "small jet plane", but describes it as 70% faster, and range is 56% to four times farther.
    OTOH, legislators point out the existing two planes cost only HK$ 140 mil.
    Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

    http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

  13. #523
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    J-10B pic from China-defense from =GT's post
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  14. #524
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    the first one looks like J-10B, the second one is definitely not.
    Visit my Chinese military blog at http://china-pla.blogspot.com/

  15. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
    the first one looks like J-10B, the second one is definitely not.
    I think that's more than clear ... and they were only put together as they show both versions in very similar views !

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  16. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
    the first one looks like J-10B, the second one is definitely not.
    The top one looks photoshopped to me.

  17. #527
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    http://search.japantimes.co.jp/rss/eo20090509a1.html

    "Let China launch its flattop"

    Saturday, May 9, 2009
    By TETSUO KOTANI

    China's possession of aircraft carriers is not a matter of if but when. Last November, an official in China's Ministry of National Defense touched for the first time in a public venue on the possibility of his nation acquiring aircraft carriers.

    China has purchased three carriers built by the former Soviet Union and one built by Australia, gaining an opportunity to study their structures. One of those, the Varyag, was supposed to serve as a floating casino in Macao, but it is now moored at a shipyard in Dalian, where it has been painted the same gray as other naval vessels, and an angled deck has been installed. The Varyag does not have engines and cannot be deployed as China's first aircraft carrier, but it can be used for research/training purposes.
    Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

    http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

  18. #528
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    http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2009-0...t_11359671.htm
    to
    http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2009-0...11359671_3.htm

    12 May 2009:
    Martyrs' Cemetery, Cheng Du City, Si Chuan Province.
    Monument, for the five crew of the PLA Mi-171 that crashed on 31 May 2008, unveilled.

    On page 1, the last paragraph announces the heroic serial number LH92734 is retired, and won't re-appear on any PLA aircraft.

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2009-0...t_11327440.htm
    http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2009-0...9212507010.jpg

    Small photo of PLA Black Hawk, comrade LH92212, if anyone's accounting the PLA Black Hawk serial numbers.

    http://www.chinamil.com.cn/site1/xwp...nt_1760153.htm
    to
    http://www.chinamil.com.cn/site1/xwp..._1760153_7.htm

    12 May 2009:
    Martyrs' Cemetery, Cheng Du City, Si Chuan Province.
    Monument, for the five crew of the PLA Mi-171 that crashed on 31 May 2008, unveilled.
    Cameo appearance by PLA Black Hawk, comrade LH92206.

    (IMO, they were heroes, Chicom or not.)

    http://news.cnwest.com/content/2009-...nt_2047880.htm
    to
    http://news.cnwest.com/content/2009-..._2047880_6.htm

    12 May 2009:
    Si Chuan Province.
    512 kg of flowers and petals spread from PLA heloes in the air.

    http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2009-05-11...5601573s.shtml

    5.12 earthquake relics displayed at the first 5.12 earthquake museum, including debris recovered from the crash site of the PLA Mi-171 that crashed.
    Last edited by Don Chan; 13th May 2009 at 15:05.
    Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

    http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

  19. #529
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    XXJ?

    Interesting pictures posted over at sinodefence.

    There are no markings or distinguishing features to ID this as being Chinese, but from it second picture, its clear that this design has progressed a very long way. And I have not seen a design like it from any of the other major powers, which leaves only China.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    the true power of religion does not lie with the deity, it lies with the priests.

  20. #530
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by plawolf View Post
    Interesting pictures posted over at sinodefence.

    There are no markings or distinguishing features to ID this as being Chinese, but from it second picture, its clear that this design has progressed a very long way. And I have not seen a design like it from any of the other major powers, which leaves only China.
    IIRC.... that is a Boeing? NASA? program.....

    Can't remember the details though

  21. #531
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    Yeah I recognise it. Can't recall the program but sure it's US not Chinese. 1990s I think.

  22. #532
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    ] And I have not seen a design like it from any of the other major powers, which leaves only China.

    Objection, Your Honour.

    MiG-37B Ferret E:

    http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6146
    http://www.italeri.com/product.aspx?item=0162S

    Cousin of MiG-31 Firefox.

    (And some Netters complained I don't have much of what one would call "a sense of humour". Sigh.)

    http://www.freewebs.com/paragon19/xplanes.htm

    Papercrafts.

    J-13.
    J-15.
    Lavi.
    MiG-37 Ferret.
    Others.

    http://www.freewebs.com/paragon19/co...ryaircraft.htm

    Papercrafts.

    J-10.
    Others.
    Last edited by Don Chan; 15th May 2009 at 17:28.
    Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

    http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

  23. #533
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    Well, cheers for the correction. Although I am still a little unclear as to what this thing is, with some claiming its russian while others say its american.
    the true power of religion does not lie with the deity, it lies with the priests.

  24. #534
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    well, I'm just glad to see some speculation on a single engined 5th gen. I think this has been one hell of a blind spot vis-a-vis the MiG-E and whatever China makes (if it does at all)

  25. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLA-MKII View Post
    well, I'm just glad to see some speculation on a single engined 5th gen. I think this has been one hell of a blind spot vis-a-vis the MiG-E and whatever China makes (if it does at all)
    ???? ... but not that strange model above, that's clearly an US project (don't know the real name, but it is one !)

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  26. #536
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  27. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    ???? ... but not that strange model above, that's clearly an US project (don't know the real name, but it is one !)

    Deino
    True, I too recognize it (but can't name it). Still, it "technically" qualifies as speculation

    PS: Cheers and thanks for posting, DongDong2. Love the video
    Last edited by PLA-MKII; 18th May 2009 at 10:49.

  28. #538
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    http://news.ifeng.com/mil/2/200905/0..._1167782.shtml
    to
    http://news.ifeng.com/mil/2/200905/0...67782_16.shtml

    *RUMOUR*

    This article claims Ba Yi, the PLAAF aero team, converts to J-10s.

    However,
    http://news.ifeng.com/mil/2/200905/0...167782_2.shtml
    has a rare photo
    http://img.ifeng.com/res/200905/0521_627280.jpg
    of, in 1986, the USAF Thunderbirds F-16s at Nan Yuan AB, Bei Jing.

    http://news.ifeng.com/mil/2/200905/0..._1170457.shtml

    Since 2007, China license-produces the UH-12, the civilian version of the USA (US Army) H-23.
    Last edited by Don Chan; 22nd May 2009 at 16:00.
    Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

    http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

  29. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by plawolf View Post
    Interesting pictures posted over at sinodefence.

    There are no markings or distinguishing features to ID this as being Chinese, but from it second picture, its clear that this design has progressed a very long way. And I have not seen a design like it from any of the other major powers, which leaves only China.
    US project.

    Subsonic High Alpha Research Concept (SHARC)

    http://www.windtunnels.arc.nasa.gov/...x80/40G17.html

    http://www.windtunnels.arc.nasa.gov/...x80/40G20.html

    http://www.windtunnels.arc.nasa.gov/...x80/40G16.html

    TJ
    Last edited by TEEJ; 22nd May 2009 at 22:48.

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